Re: Lighting Design for Kitchen

[Ben McCormack <yahoogroup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Paul

I will take a closer look at their products.

Out of interest what transformers do you use with lv and cbus?

Ben

On 29 Dec 2008, at  15:39, Paul Gale wrote:

> I bought them through a reseller before I realised I could deal=20=20
> direct with them (through my company) - you may also be able to
do=20=20
> the same. They were VERY helpful and loaned me several fixtures so
I=20=20
> could decide (these were stair lights).
>
> Price was a LOT more than the Aurora units but quality is=20=20
> significantly higher - a lot of people don't rate Aurora at all
-=20=20
> they are significantly cheaper and lower quality. Depends what
you=20=20
> want though. I can't remember what I paid but probably in the
region=20=20
> of =C2=A320 per unit + transformer + lamp
>
> Paul.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx] On=20=20
> Behalf
> > Of Ben McCormack
> > Sent: 29 December 2008 14:12
> > To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: [ukha_d] Lighting Design for Kitchen
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > Looking at the calculations again I come up with 9 50w lights
needed
> > to cover the kitchen. Thats in a basic grid pattern. Now I will
want
> > to add some more lights over the Aga and Island unit. So this
would
> > give me a total of 12 lights in the ceiling.
> >
> > I will also have the under cabinet mini fluorescent tubes and I
can
> > put there directly onto the 12 Ch Relay
> >
> > There is also a dining area that is 3.5 * 5.1. So lets assume
8=20=20
> lights
> > in this area.
> >
> > Currently I have the following dimmers
> >
> > 8Ch - 1 Amp per Ch
> > 4Ch - 2 Amp per Ch
> > 4Ch - 5 Amp per Ch
> >
> > So using 50w Bulbs I can have 4 dimmed per 1 Amp Channel.
> >
> > Kitchen
> >
> > 4 Zones in the kitchen
> > 3 * 4 50w Downlighters
> > 1 * Relay for under cabinet
> >
> > Dining Area
> >
> > 4 Zones in Dining Area
> > 2 * 4 50w Downlighters
> > 1 * Light above the table
> > 1 * Relay for lamp sockets on sideboard
> >
> >
> > Paul - How much are the fittings from the Light Corporation.
> >
> > From Aurora I can get the following
> >
> > http://www.aurora-
> > lighting.com/ProductPages/LampProductDetails.aspx?=20
> g=3D2952&c=3D81&b=3D71&oc=3D8
> > 1
> > For =C2=A33.76 each
> >
> > Ben
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 29 Dec 2008, at 13:08, Paul Gale wrote:
> >
> > > Oh, and you obviously need to think about placement - do
you=20=20
> have a
> > > dining table or breakfast bar etc in there? Is it moveable?
Is the
> > > positioning of the fittings flexible enough to cope with a
re-=20
> layout
> > > of the furniture (as has happened to me several times after
> > > installation).
> > >
> > > If you go with tiltable fittings, this gives some level of
control
> > > over the direction of the light (within limits of the
fitting). I
> > > specified the Sunbeam fittings from the light corporation
for=20=20
> all of
> > > the downlights I was fitting or replacing (about 40 IIRC) -
was a
> > > good move as they allowed "fine tuning" of the
light position to=20=20
> get
> > > the best result. They are obviously more expensive though -
but if
> > > you've gone to the expense of CBus, it's got to be worth
it!? :)
> > >
> > > Paul.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx] On
> > > Behalf
> > > > Of Ben McCormack
> > > > Sent: 29 December 2008 12:02
> > > > To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: Re: [ukha_d] Lighting Design for Kitchen
> > > >
> > > > All
> > > >
> > > > With regard to required light levels I think I am
getting=20=20
> somewhere
> > > > with the American regulations
> > > >
> > > >
> > http://www.redwoodcity.org/cds/building/pdf/handouts/Electrical/kitchen
> > > > _lighting_requirements.pdf
> > > >
> > > > "A design recommendation may be to utilize the
Illuminating
> > > > Engineering Society
> > > > of North America (IESNA) guidelines that at least
30=20=20
> footcandles of
> > > > light be
> > > > provided for seeing tasks in kitchens'
> > > >
> > > > and
> > > >
> > > > One footcandle =E2=89=88 10.764 lux.
> > > >
> > > > This gives a recommended lux level of 320.
> > > >
> > > > Now with 20W bulbs I need 20 Lights
> > > > and
> > > > with 50w bulbs I need 9 Lights.
> > > >
> > > > Ben
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 29 Dec 2008, at 11:52, Ben McCormack wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Paul
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been looking at the Light Corporation for a
while. They
> > are
> > > > > based just down the road from me.
> > > > >
> > > > > I was also looking at Jonh Cullen but as you say
they are
> > > expensive
> > > > > and also design to use their own fittings, this
pushes the=20=20
> cost
> > > up.
> > > > >
> > > > > The only thing I can't currently work out is the
required
> > > illuminance
> > > > >
> > > > > 320 lux Recommended office lighting (Australia)[8]
> > > > > 400 lux Sunrise or sunset on a clear day. Well-lit
office=20=20
> area.
> > > > > 500 lux Lighting level for an office according to
the European
> > law
> > > > UNI
> > > > > EN 12464
> > > > >
> > > > > If I go with 500lux I end up with 25 lights just
in the=20=20
> ceiling
> > > > >
> > > > > Drop that down to 320lux and it comes out at 16
fittings.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ben
> > > > >
> > > > > On 29 Dec 2008, at 10:48, Paul Gale wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Ben,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think you're doing the right thing
designing yourself - I
> > > used a
> > > > > > "medium" level designer from John
Cullen Lighting in=20=20
> London but
> > > > > > really did most of it myself anyway when I
was speaking to=20=20
> her!
> > > > > > Wasted cash in my case (about =C2=A3500 IIRC)
- that was for =
=20
> the new
> > > > > loft
> > > > > > office and stair wells.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 25 fittings is a LOT!, but if a load of them
are task/=20
> uplights/
> > > > > > effect then that's closer. Still, they'll
cost a fortune=20=20
> with
> > > > > > associated CBus dimmers and transformers,
fittings and good
> > > quality
> > > > > > lamps! I'd say, get that number down a bit if
you can.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If they're 50W halogen, running costs would
also be a factor
> > you
> > > > > > shouldn't ignore.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do use a high quality lamp though - I used
Bell Aluminium
> > > halogen
> > > > > > 5000hr dichroic lamps with a range of beam
angles. They also
> > > have
> > > > > > the benefit of throwing most of the heat
forwards, so=20=20
> reducing
> > > the
> > > > > > fire risk and melting of fitting/transformer
etc behind!=20=20
> Good
> > > > > > quality lamps make a big difference to the
quality of=20=20
> light and
> > > > life
> > > > > > of the lamp.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I replaced most of my downlights with a
"dark" effect=20=20
> halogen
> > > - has
> > > > > > a black ring baffle inside the body before
the lamp to=20=20
> reduce
> > > > > > horizontal glare. This is nice as it adds a
real feeling of
> > > > > > "designed" lighting - a lot less
eye drawing glare on the
> > > ceiling,
> > > > > > more "pools" of light in carefully
chosen places etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also consider the angle of beam of the lamp -
you can do=20=20
> some
> > > great
> > > > > > things with really narrow beams to illuminate
smaller items/
> > > areas
> > > > > > and use the light as a effect light. Also
coloured filters/
> > > dichroic
> > > > > > lenses can be fun.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > These are the range I used for my replacement
and new
> > > downlights:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.lightcorporation.com/cat/downlights.php
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also used these in the loft shower room which
look pretty
> > > funky -
> > > > > > really well made solid aluminium turned
fittings - top=20=20
> quality:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.lightcorporation.com/cat/cam50.php
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I also used a number of colour changeable LED
marker/=20
> uplights
> > > from:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.abstractavr.com/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I used a custom version of:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.abstractavr.com/steplights/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > with 1W RGB LED's in, driven from a DMX
capable LED driver.
> > I've
> > > > not
> > > > > > programmed them up yet, but will eventually
be controlled=20=20
> via
> > > CBus
> > > > > > and Kevin's xAP/HV/CBus gateway (fab bit of
kit!)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > HTH?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Paul.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > > >> From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx=20=20
> [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx]
> > On
> > > > > >> Behalf
> > > > > >> Of Ben McCormack
> > > > > >> Sent: 29 December 2008 10:05
> > > > > >> To: UKHA Mailinglist; UK Selfbuild
> > > > > >> Subject: [ukha_d] Lighting Design for
Kitchen
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> All
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I have started looking into the lighting
design for the
> > > kitchen.
> > > > > The
> > > > > >> space is quite large 4.5 * 5.5m and all
of the lighting=20=20
> will
> > be
> > > > > >> controlled by cbus dimmers.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I have considered using a lighting
designer but thought I
> > would
> > > > > >> have a
> > > > > >> go myself last night.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> The plan is to have low voltage halogens
in the ceiling and
> > > then
> > > > > task
> > > > > >> lights under the cabinets.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> So I started by finding that Aurora seem
to produce nice
> > > fittings
> > > > > and
> > > > > >> transformers at a reasonable price. (http://www.aurora-
> > > > lighting.com/
> > > > > )
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I then found Relux which is a lighting
design program.=20=20
> Aurora
> > > > > produce
> > > > > >> the specifications for each and every one
of their fittings
> > > that
> > > > > >> feeds
> > > > > >> into Relux. (http://www.relux.biz/) The software is
free to
> > > > > download
> > > > > >> and not too difficult to get your head
around.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> So I chose a standard Aurora fitting and
put all of the=20=20
> room
> > > > > details
> > > > > >> into Relux.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> You can also add things like windows and
different finished
> > > on the
> > > > > >> floor and walls.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Fitting - http://www.aurora-
> > > > > >>
lighting.com/ProductPages/LampProductDetails.aspx?
> > > > > >> g=3D2951&c=3D6&b=3D71&oc=3D81
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> There are a couple of factors that affect
the calculation
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Maintenance Factor - I assume this is
used for commercial
> > > > > >> installations where Maintenance and blown
bulbs can be a=20=20
> major
> > > > > issue.
> > > > > >> I set this to 1.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Illuminance Required - After digging
around I left this set
> > > at 500
> > > > > >> lx.
> > > > > >> This seems to be a reasonable figure to
use.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> The end result of this is 25 Light
fittings in this space.
> > > Spaced
> > > > > >> on a
> > > > > >> 1m grid.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> So how does this compare with other
people who have=20=20
> fitted low
> > > > > >> voltage
> > > > > >> in the kitchen. It seems rather a lot of
light fittings=20=20
> to me?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Regards
> > > > > >> Ben
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> ------------------------------------
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
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> > > > > >> signature database 3719 (20081227)
__________
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version of=20=20
> virus
> > > > signature database 3720 (20081229) __________
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virus
> > > signature database 3720 (20081229) __________
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> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
virus
> > signature database 3720 (20081229) __________
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> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
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> > http://www.eset.com
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> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
virus=20=20
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>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
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>=20



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