Re: X10 Status Holy Grail with Netiom xAP

["rb_ziggy" <richard.boreham@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Tim

No problem caused - all in the cause of seeing what's possible :-)

I had a look at Farnell too and CT's seem to start at aroung the=20
GBP7.00 mark so that not too wild.  My gut feel price for a worked=20
up sensor would be aroung the GBP10.00 mark (plus Netiom i/f).  Much=20
beyong that (certainly say 100 each) and I'd pull the X10 out and=20
put CBUS in!=20=20

My query was a bit of a 'thought experiment' as I don't really have=20
the skill to build something like this (esp with 240V).  I was/am=20
interested in whether it might be possible / practical and whether=20
anyone had tried this approach.=20=20

However, if anyone on list does have the skills and interest then it=20
might be interesting to take a bit further. Let me know!

Regards

Richard

--- In ukha_d@xxxxxxx, "Hawes,Timothy Edward \(GEG\)"=20
<haweste@a...> wrote:
>
> Richard,
>=20
> I seem to have created some confusion with my original reply re:=20
the AD leaking current, or not, so my apologies. The relay solution=20
should work though. It does seem a little back to front, but you're=20
not really controlling the LV side, just providing status. In a lot=20
of my work there's also another intermediate voltage (typically=20
110V) for the control circuit within the electrical switchgear which=20
sits between the PLCs 24VDC and whatever V or kV the final load is=20
running on.=20
>=20
> I had a quick squizz on RS (http://rswww.com) for CTs and while=20
the transducer prices are comparable to relays (i.e. ~=A310) that's=20
just the sensor and you'll need some other electronics to give you a=20
1-5V proportional output. My comment of 'not particularly cheap'=20
meant at least =A3100 per CT device, which when compared to the price=20
of the NetIOM unit, looked a bit "odd" to me, as for the price
of=20
several CTs to give you status feedback I think you could afford to=20
replace the X10 modules with a hardwired system instead. But now I'm=20
drifting off from your original question...
>=20
> Anyway, sorry for any confusion and I'd be interested to hear=20
about whatever solution you decide to go with.
>=20
> Cheers,
>=20
> Tim.
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rb_ziggy
> >=20
> > Tim
> >=20
> > I guess the relay would probably work with the AD units as=20
> > the leakage must be pretty small compared with the load of=20
> > 240v / 13 (or
> > so) Amps.  Just seems a bit 'back to front' as it would be=20
> > the high voltage / current side switching the low voltage one!
> >=20
> > It would also be good to have a general purpose device that=20
> > would work on ither AD or LD units.  But if its much costlier=20
> > to do so, it may not be sensible.
> >=20
> > I think the Netiom is 5V rated on the input (from the reviews=20
> > I've seen).  I'll have a look for these transducers - 'not=20
> > particularly cheap' Hmm!
> >=20
> > I seem to recall Frank's device monitored the on/off led on=20
> > the front of the module.
> >=20
> > Regards
> >=20
> > Richard=20
> >=20
> > --- In ukha_d@xxxxxxx, "Hawes,Timothy Edward
\(GEG\)"=20
> > <haweste@a...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Richard,
> > >=20
> > > In theory the AD modules would be easy enough, a
conventional=20
coil
> > relay
> > > or solid state relay wired across the AD output which
then=20
closes a=20
> > > contact when the 240V output is ON. The same contacts are=20
wired to=20
> > > NetIOM inputs. The only caveat is that the AD modules leak
a=20
small=20
> > > current across the output even when OFF to detect when=20
something is=20
> > > plugged in. You'd have to choose your relays carefully to=20
ensure
> > they
> > > didn't falsely close when the AD was actually off.
> > >=20
> > > For the LDs you might be better off with a current
transducer -
a
> > device
> > > that measures the amount of current flowing through a
circuit.=20
> > These are
> > > available with 4-20mA and 0-10V outputs as they're used=20
frequently
> > in
> > > industry. They're not particularly cheap though. What type
of
> > analogue
> > > input does the NetIOM accept?
> > >=20
> > > I thought Frank developed some sort of CT-device for use
with=20
his
> > zone
> > > probes, but that may have just detected on/off, rather=20
than "dim
> > level".
> > >=20
> > > HTH,
> > >=20
> > > Tim.
> > >=20
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: rb_ziggy
> > > >=20
> > > > OK, this could all be horribly wrong but I had a
thought=20
when=20
> > > > thinking about that knotty problem of knowing the
status of=20
X10=20
> > > > (mainly AD & LD) units that are controlled both
across th=20
> > powerline=20
> > > > but also with momentary switches...
> > > >=20
> > > > Can the power output side of the AD/LD unit be used and
then=20
> > > > interfaced with, say, an xAP enabled device (such as
a=20
NETIOM)?
> > > >=20
> > > > For example. The NETIOM has 16 (5v) inputs for a
very=20
reasonable=20
> > > > price.  Is there such a thing as a cheap solid state=20
> > device that can=20
> > > > be wired in parallel with the live & neutral output
on=20
> > the AD/LD to=20
> > > > 'measure' the power output and translate this to a
'value'=20
(0/5V)=20
> > > > that the NETIOM could
> > interpret?
> > > >=20
> > > > You may gather that my electronics experience is a
bit=20
> > limited, to=20
> > > > the extent that I don't know what cheap power
measurement=20
> > device is=20
> > > > available or would work with the triac 'chopped' output
from=20
a LD=20
> > > > unit (I'm guessing it might be easier for the AD
units).
> > > >=20
> > > > Also, for LD it would be useful to get some sort of
'level'=20
> > > > of power but how to do this on digital inputs to the=20
> > NETIOM, I have=20
> > > > no idea (clearly would be possible for the analogue=20
> > inputs but there=20
> > > > are 'only' 4 on the NETIOM). But as a minimum it would
be=20
good to=20
> > > > know an LD unit is on (at any
> > > > level) or off.
> > > >=20
> > > > Also, I guess a bit of isolation might be in order to
stop=20
the=20
> > > > possibility of 240V being passed through to the low=20
> > voltage device!
> > > >=20
> > > > I'd welcome thoughts.  Any milage in this or am I
barking?=20
> > > >=20
> > > > Anyone fancy a go?
> > > >=20
> > > > Cheers
> > > >=20
> > > > Richard
>