Re: Power & signal & control

[Chris Hunter <cjhunter@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Still thinking ... if I do run cables from a base-point - the
consumer unit location (say) - to a limited number of carefully
chosen subsidiary points around the house (on a rough count, there
could be fifteen such points, spread over three floors), then how
many cables would I need to run ?   I've tried to make a list :

1: mains power - 13 or 30amp ? - one to each subsidiary point, then
starred to however many sockets
2. control / signal - EIB or CBUS twisted pair - one to each
subsidiary point, then starred to each power socket
3. land-line - BT telephone, or Cable, or Broadband - one to each
subsidiary point
4. ethernet - 100/10 or giga - one to each subsidiary point - maybe two
5. video (...) - one to each subsidiary point, maybe more

Maybe item 3. is redundant - better connect via computer, via
ethernet and/or wifi ...
Maybe items 4. & 5. are both cat5e or cat6 & will later be re-run
as
fibre-optic ...

I think I've read that mains & EIB can be run together, but that
mains & CBUS must be run 150mm apart ... ?

Presumably mains & fibre-optic could be run together ... 'wonder if
it might be more economic to go straight to fibre-optic - more
expensive cable, but less expensive installation - one cable instead
of several & less conduit & less pfaff ?

(sorry for the thinking out loud - new to all this, still a bit
muddled !)

Chris

PS: actually wrote the above on Christmas Day, while everyone else
was having a short snooze / watching something on the telly ...



On 24 Dec 2005, at 11:02, Chris Hunter wrote:

> Nigel -
>
> Interesting ... and yes, it's a great shame the costs as they work-
> out don't favour flexibility.
>
> Given your node-0 approach on signaling / control, I guess you will
> also have no ring-mains for the power circuits - only star / tree
> arrangements (what I called radial) ...
>
> I imagine power line flexibility will be in terms of extendability
> rather than re-running ... the trends being for more devices of lower
> power ... and maybe the same goes for signal lines ... but not for
> data-lines, for which the trends seems to be strongly for ever
> increasing capacities, and increasing separation from power-lines ...
> until fibre-optic becomes the norm, that is.
>
> 'must say, I'm tempted to go for running two tubes (one for power
&
> signal, one for data) to a limited number of carefully chosen
> specific points in various positions around the house ... with the
> tubes large enough to allow doubling and even trebling of cables in
> the future ... and the tubes being run in the floors (that being
> where all our other pipes are being run - ventilation, waste-water,
> and plumbing) ... all of which seems to be rather the same as your
> approach, with us having to use tubes rather than your voids, just
> because of our structural arrangements (concrete for walls &
> floors) ...
>
> We've got our shell almost done now - weather-proof & secure - but
I
> think I'm rather regretting we didn't think all this through more
> fully at the design stage ... ie; right down to the last detail ...
> in the traditional way, we left the details to be sorted out during
> the actual build ... an approach that has left us with a more
> complicated job than might have been, in the fitting-out ...
>
> I was attracted to the idea of sockets in the floor, but it's what we
> have at work, and there the arrangement has proved awkward,
> inconvenient, and vulnerable to damage ...
>
> Not an easy one to solve ... !!   Houses must have been simple in the
> days before we needed all this infrastructure !
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> On 21 Dec 2005, at 09:23, Nigel Giddings wrote:
>
> > Chris,
> >
> > I think you have fundamentally the right idea, flexibility...
> >
> > I also think you need some sort 'cable route' around the rooms...
> >
> > But it will be more expensive to install, probably at least 3
times
> > the
> > price...
> >
> > The idea of running a 'bus' for mains power is a bit of a non-
> > starter at
> > this time, I also think your BCO would have a fit... I do agree
> > that the
> > radial (a type of bus?) does not suit home automation unless you
> > want to
> > go X10 and if you are starting from scratch I wouldn't start with
> X10.
> >
> > I have combined the cable route round the building, by routing
> > under the
> > ground floor in the basement ceiling space and above the 1st
floor
> > using
> > the loft, rather than having a duct in the actual rooms...
> Getting to
> > room mounted ducts after you have decorated would be difficult?
> >
> > I have then piped from these 'trunk routes' to each of the points
in
> > each room. 2 x 20mm metal conduits to deep double back boxes.
Metal
> > conduit to improve RFI rejection and two pipes one for High
Voltage
> > (HV)
> > and the other for Low Voltage (LV).
> >
> > The disadvantage is that you still need to nominate socket and
> switch
> > positions for the first fix stage... I have been relatively
generous
> > with this ensuring each corner has an 'outlet' and that an
> > appliance can
> > be located anywhere without trailing cables across a door or even
> > under
> > a window. I also have sockets set in the floor using floor boxes
so
> > that
> > the desk in the study can act as an island and the telephone,
laptop
> > power supply etc comes from under the desk.... All these are
routed
> > back
> > to the 'trunk routes' with between 2 and 5 metres of conduit...
> >
> > If you still want to build the 'flexible' home let me know and
I'll
> > pass
> > on a few more of my ideas.
> >
> > A picture says a thousand words, and I have a lot of pictures...
> > See http://photos.corbenic.co.uk
> >
> > HTH
> >
> > Nigel
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Chris Hunter [mailto:cjhunter@xxxxxxx]
> > Sent: 20 December 2005 19:07
> > To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
> > Subject: [ukha_d] Power & signal & control
> >
> >
> > I had thought we might run a box-conduit around all rooms of our
> > self-build, set surface-flush into the walls, to carry power
&
> > signal &
> > control cables.
> >
> > Then we could tap into them where-ever required, and easily
> replace /
> > update the cables as necessary, in the future.
> >
> > But is there a better way, I wonder ?   Signal & power cables
have
> > to be
> >
> > kept apart.   Tapping into the cables would be a fiddle - cutting
&
> > stripping & making screw-terminal joints, etc, etc.   And
conduit
> > is not
> >
> > cheap.
> >
> > But future-proofing demands flexibility !
> >
> > Is there a better way, I wonder ?
> >
> > For example, separate bare mains wires, with crocodile clips,
> and / or
> > insulation-piercing connections ?
> >
> > Or ... ?
> >
> > And what size cables should I use ?
> >
> > I'm not a fan of ring-mains, star-runs seem better ...
> >
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------oooo0oooo-------
> > 21/12/2005
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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