RE: Re: DIN Enclosure for CBus modules NOW Part P Registration

["Dean Barrett" <dean@xxxxxxxxx>]

Neil
=20
This is wording i was looking for - lifted straight from NICEIC Part P
Q&A'=
s
http://www.niceic.org.uk/partp/partpqs.html
=20

Q
Will I be able to have my electrical work certified as compliant with
Building Regulations by other than a building control body?
=09

A
As the Building Act under which the Building Regulations are formed
recognizes only those who actually carry out work to be competent to
self-certify, it is understood that third party certification (by other
tha=
n
a building control body) will not be acceptable under the provisions of
Par=
t
P.
=09
So as far as i can see - you cant Part P someone elses installation. Anyone
doing this is probably not complying.
=20
This of course may be wrong as this is the NICEIC's interpretation, though
=
i
have read the same within the IEE Wiring matters newsletter.
=20
=20
=20


Dean.
=20

_____=20=20

From: Dean Barrett [mailto:dean@xxxxxxx]=20
Sent: 11 April 2005 07:52
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Re: DIN Enclosure for CBus modules NOW Part P
Registration


Neil

Perhaps i missed used the word Appointed - it was meant in the terms, that
if you do the works yourself then Building Control will use/appoint someone
to carry out the tests for you.and then make a charge i.e. =A3150.00

As electrical contractors we have a choice of a number of third party
registration companies, as an NICEIC firm you had a choice (not automatic)
to become Part P registered, we could still have used someone else. Just
because someone is NICEIC does not mean they are Part P registered, though
they will have the required insurances and skills to be registered, as the
criteria for NICEIC is higher than Part P

The third party registration companies is a scam in my opinion. Whilst they
are needed to check the firms compliance - works/insurance/qualifications
etc., I do not believe there was a need for them to become intermediateries
in the process, i.e. Every certificate we do costs =A31.50 if we fill in
th=
e
website form, or =A32.00 to fax. I get the feeling the ODPM will be
getting=
a
cut of that some how :(

NHBC have moved the goalposts slightly since January, stating that if
Building Control is NHBC and contractor is NICEIC then a suitable
completio=
n
certificate issued by the contractor at NHBC final inspection stage is
acceptable, and no further Part P certification is required.

Part P registration allows SELF certification as laid down in the Part P
regs and guidance paperwork issued by NICEIC, it does not allow for
certification of others work. I'm looking for the exact wording and will
post it when i find it - but the words self certification are clear.

I'm not suprised BC dont know whats happening - i'm sure they dont want all
this extra hassle/paperwork either.

Your query of my contradition is hopefully explained at the start, simply
explained i believe is :-

Do the work yourself - only Building control and there own contractors will
give it part P compliance
Use an approved contractor - he will Self Certify the installation to Part
=
P

Remember this is only my intepretation of the requirements, as is all works
to BS7671, we all interpreted what we read, hence you'll find so many
different opinions on installation techniques and requirements.

I'm not looking for business by suggesting it must be done by an approved
contractor, i'm still trying to work out how we will self certify around
2000 units this year, though the NHBC's ideas has already removed a few
hundred from my list :)

And finally - remember Part P also covers Flooding ;)




Dean.


_____=20=20

From: Neil Fuller [mailto:neil@xxxxxxx]=20
Sent: 10 April 2005 22:48
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ukha_d] Re: DIN Enclosure for CBus modules NOW Part P
Registration


Dean

> under part p only building control appointed persons can test and
inspect
> others work circa 150.00 im told.

But from my understanding, it's not buildings control who
"appoint" firms.=
=20
It's the "Registration companies" such as NICEIC or BSI.

I have also been told that NICEIC registration is an acceptable
alternative=
=20
to a Part P registered firm. In other words, if a company is NICEIC=20
registered they do not have to be part P registered too.

Do you know anything about this?

Also, my local Building Control office told me that I could carry out work=
=20
but I would need to get it inspected by a "competant person" -
Either NICEI=
C

or Part P registered.

It does seem that the BC Offices are still in a state of confusion about=20
what is and is not allowed. Sounds to me like there are regional
variations=
.

>>part  p companies such as ourselves are not allowed to certify
others=20
>>work.

Very odd. A mate who is Part P registered is doing a roaring trade doing=20
test and inspect for people like kitchen fitters and plumbers. Also, it=20
contradicts your first statement that " . . .  . appointed persons can
test=
=20
and inspect _others_ work".

Now I'm totally confused!

Any comments/guidance welcome coz I have an extension to wire later in the=
=20
year and as a Maintenance Sparks and Controls Engineer of 30 years
standing=
,

I'll be damned if I'm gonna pay someone else to do a job half as well as I=
=20
will do it! - And my mate is happy to do the test and inspect for beer=20
vouchers :-)

I also think that it's very relevant to people on this list (such as
Gareth=
)

so they understand what they have to do to be legal.

Cheers

Neil

----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Dean Barrett" <dean@xxxxxxx>
To: <ukha_d@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 10:02 PM
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Re: DIN Enclosure for CBus modules


>
> under part p only building control appointed persons can test and
inspect
> others work circa 150.00 im told.
>
> part  p companies such as ourselves are not allowed to certify
others=20
> work.
>
>
> Dean
>
>  _____
>
> From: Neil Fuller [mailto:neil@xxxxxxx]
> Sent: 10 April 2005 20:35
> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [ukha_d] Re: DIN Enclosure for CBus modules
>
>
> Dean
>
> As we are past 1st January '05 - shouldn't you be getting a decent
>> electrician to do it all anyway ?
>>
>> You should have Part P compliance, and not be breaking the law. An
>> electrician could only certify his own work anyway.
>
> My understanding is that you can do your own work. Part P requires the
> testing and completion certificate to be issued by a
"competent" or
> registered person, thus ensuring that the installation is compliant.
>
> Or have I misunderstood?
>
> Cheers
>
> Neil
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: "Dean Barrett" <dean@xxxxxxx>
> To: <ukha_d@xxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 6:15 PM
> Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Re: DIN Enclosure for CBus modules
>
>
>>
>> As we are past 1st January '05 - shouldnt you be getting a decent
>> electrician to do it all anyway ?
>>
>> You should have Part P compliance, and not be breaking the law. An
>> electrician could only certify his own work anyway.
>>
>> A suitable enclosure will have neutral and earth bars fitted to
which yo=
u
>> can bring everything together - if you feed with a 20a remember
its got=
=20
>> to
>> be bigger than 1mm !!
>>
>> With your installed feed you will supply the control side of the
dimmer
>> and
>> then loop across to the dimmer side. All neutrals and earths
from=20
>> outgoing
>> sides will go straight to blocks.
>>
>> Depending how many circuits you've got, you may find it easier to
get a
>> coil
>> of 1.5mm Brown 6181Y (single cable) and use this to go from each
Dimmer
>> way
>> 1a MCB, and then the other side of the MCB will have your T&E
coming bac=
k
>> from the lights with neutrals and earths going straight to blocks.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dean.
>>
>>  _____
>>
>> From: Gareth Cook [mailto:g@xxxxxxx]
>> Sent: 10 April 2005 16:08
>> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
>> Subject: Fw: [ukha_d] Re: DIN Enclosure for CBus modules
>>
>>
>> I'm no electrical expert - so if the consensus is for MCB's on the
load
>> side, i'll do it !
>>
>> My only problem is no experience with MCB's/Consumer units - so if
I do
>> get a 2nd enclosure for the CBUS stuff, it's the dos and don'ts
for
>> getting the wiring right.
>>
>> I have 2x8 Channel Dimmers and 1x12 Channel Relay. So I'm assuming
my=20
>> plan
>> is :
>>
>> 1. Install a 20Amp MCB in the main consumer unit (B type and 6KA
rating=
=20
>> if
>> possible ?)
>> 2. Earth and Neutral to enclosure. This is the bit I'm not sure on
- how
>> to extend these from the consumer unit correctly. I need some sort
of
>> "block" for each one ?
>> 3. Install MCB's for the LOAD side. So, I need 1Amp units ?
>>
>> OR - I find a decent electrician !
>>
>> G.
>>
>> Gareth Cook
>> SWG EMEA North Account Manager
>> IBM SWG - BTE Office - Lotus Park, Staines, TW18 3AG
>> Office: +44 (0)1784 445166 - Mobile: +44 (0)7980 445166
>> AIM Chat : TheBoyG - MSN Chat : chat@xxxxxxx
>> email: g@xxxxxxx
>>
>>
>> ----- Forwarded by Gareth Cook/UK/IBM on 10/04/2005 15:56 -----
>>
>> Discussion
>> Main Topic
>>
>> "Nick" <nick@xxxxxxx>
>> Today 10:55
>>
>> .
>> Subject:
>> .
>> [ukha_d] Re: DIN Enclosure for CBus modules
>> .
>> Category:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Dont see any pics of the cbus din units ???
>>>
>>
>> Mine are all protected by MCBs.  Have a look at Mark's Node 0
feature,
>> or at www.nicklocke.co.uk/Auto.
>>
>> Yet another spin on bulbs etc..... the fact tha the dimmers always
do
>> a soft start seems to have increased the life of the bulbs in a
major
>> way!  Been in the house since August and, so far, have not
replaced a
>> single bulb.....
>>
>> I did have a slightly different problem in that the swicth on
surge of
>> the external security lights almost always tripped an MCB. 
Following
>> valuable advice on here, those channels now only switch a
contactor,
>> with the contactor doing the dirty work.
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
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_____=20=20