RE: OT question.

["Tawn, Jonathan" <jonathan.tawn@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Chaps,

I've posted elsewhere, but would like your opinions if you would,

Some of you may know i'm on about putting together a touch-screen, wall
mountable pc-esq device. the the design is very aesthetically pleasing,
looking like a normal picture frame, and not much thicker (2.5cm)

the hardware i can currently obtain is around the PII-300, 128mb, 802.11g,
and 1gb microdrive. (ahh, nice and quiet!) and a 12.1" screen (touch)

i currently dont have any pictures of the proto-type as i'm awaiting the
touch-screen to arrive. (then the joys of making it all work!)

anyway, the point of my post. how much would you pay?

i'm also trying to obtain faster hardware but 'supplier negotiations' arent
going too well atm ;o(

any views, thoughts, opinions.

rgds.
JT

Jonathan Tawn
EDS Desktop Services.


-----Original Message-----
From:	Neil Ball [mailto:neilball@xxxxxxx]
Sent:	Thursday, 11 March, 2004 16:11
To:	ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject:	RE: [ukha_d] C-BUS vs. EIB

Hi Tim

I think you're confusing EIB with the Siemens product range.
Unlike C-Bus
which is Clipsal's proprietary network protocol, EIB is an
open standard
that while developed by Siemens is licensed to other
companies e.g. you can
buy a complete EIB control system from ABB and others - this
is manufacturer
used by the chap on Grand Designs who was shown earlier in
the series - The
Return to Cloud 8.

It may well be that the Siemens EIB implementation adds
private extensions
to the public protocol thereby preventing full
interoperability with other
systems and preventing 3rd party software tools from being
used. This is
mostly the case with other open standards within the
controls industry e.g.
Lonworks.

You are correct over the commissioning issues - Siemens only
sell the
software tools and training to approved integrators which
are still pretty
thin on the ground at the moment. Then again, in some areas
this is no bad
thing. How many would be able to develop and write suitable
HVAC control
strategies for heating & cooling plant and be able to
include all of the
necessary safety interlocks, multi-stage frost protection
etc that these
more complex control systems offer. Most of these systems
only offer
programmable I/O which requires someone to design, write and
test the code,
which is why the manufacturers only use approved integrators
most of the
time. Mind you in the case of Siemens I cannot comment on
how much HVAC
knowledge their integrators actually have.

If you do not need to use analogue sensors or control
equipment and only
need a digital control system (i.e. VFC in/ relay out) then
take a look at
the Square-D system. It is much more basic, but the
interactive training
course can be found from their web site. They seem to be
trying to recruit
electrical contractors to do the install/commissioning so
I'm sure they will
also sell direct to suitably qualified end users as well.

Neil B.

-----Original Message-----
From: Hawes,Timothy Edward (GEG)
[mailto:haweste@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:45
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] C-BUS vs. EIB


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Kaye  Sent: 11 March 2004 11:26
>
> I'm just trying to throw the pros and cons of these two
> together and see
> what comes out of the mix.  Bearing in mind I'd like to
combine these
> with Comfort and try to avoid X10 if possible, does anyone
have any
> opinions on the two standards?  Any help or views would be
much
> appreciated.

Mark,

One big difference between the two systems is that one *is*
DIY-able and one
isn't. At present in the UK, EIB can only be installed(1) by
one of only
three "Partner" companies. This may change in the future,
but that's the
current situation.

Note 1: AIUI you can do all of the first fix work yourself
(pulling cables)
etc, but one of the Partner Co's has to come and connect &
commission for
you.


With C-Bus, OTOH, you can pay about 400 quid or so, take a
course and then
walk away with about 400 quid's worth of hardware to start
you off.

>from
experience of
either, I'd say that you could do pretty much anything you
would want with
either system.

Tossing another supplier into the ring - have you looked at
Polaron ?
http://www.polaron-group.co.uk/controls/
then click on
"Polaron Building
Systems". This is also a very competent system, and one that
can integrate
with the QED whole house audio products, right down to using
common
faceplates.

HTH,

Tim.



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