RE: Re: placing microphones...

["Nikola Kasic" <nikola@xxxxxxx>]

He, he.
You are not supposed to go with new technology and products into public
until they are ready.
You're not Microsoft :-).
Nik

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Gordon [mailto:paul_gordon@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 15 July 2002 20:53
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx Subject: Re: [ukha_d] Re: placing microphones...


My WAF-annoying exploration into the short-lived world of VR, was that ever= y
time SWMBO hoovered in the lounge, the HA would endlessly repeat the time t= o
her!

needless to say, my efforts into experimenting with VR were soon
curtailed...

Paul G.



>From: "psghome2002" <psghome@xxxxxxx>
>Reply-To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx >To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx >Subject: [ukha_d] Re: placing microphones...
>Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:26:21 -0000
>
>It's worse when your commands are misinterpreted rather than not
>recognised at all...
>
>How embarassing when standing naked in the living room trying to
>turn on the TV (you know you've done it!) and all of a sudden the
>lights come on full and the curtains open!
>
>Paul.
>
>--- In ukha_d@y..., "Amar Nagi" <amar@a...> wrote:
> > Your points about a phone are true, but you have to have a
>compromise.
> > I would not like to be sitting in the bathroom screaming commands=
> > That are not being recognized, I would rather just have the
>wireless
> > Phone with me. I mean if I am in the bathroom I would still want<= BR> > > To be able to answer the phone.
> >
> > I would have loved a Star Trek Solution but found to my
>disappointment
> > It just does not exist and will not for a long time. I spoke
> > To a lot of automation experts in the states and over here too. > > And that is what I found.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nikola Kasic [mailto:nikola@k...]
> > Sent: 15 July 2002 17:34
> > To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx > > Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Re: placing microphones...
> >
> > You're right, but I don't have to implement everything now. I hav= e
>to put cables for speakers, PIR and IR Tx/Rx, so I'll use the
>oportunity to put mic cable as well. I hope this is the last time I
>am putting cables and I'll probably put speakers now and tre rest of >the cables hide in the wall. So when the time comes and technology
>is ready, I'll be ready as well.
> > The problem with phone is that you still have to carry phone with=
>yourself. Then IR remote would be even more reliable. Recognition
>would be 100%, but the point is not having to carry anything.
> > Do you carry phone in a bathroom? ;-).
> > And what if you want to give some command while someone is talkin= g
>on the phone?
> > Nik
> >       -----Original Message-----
> >       From: Amar Nagi [mailto:amar@a...]=
> >       Sent: 15 July 2002 17:17
> >       To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx > >       Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Re: placing = microphones...
> >       Nikola,
> >
> >       Can i just add something to this d= iscussion.
> >       I too looked at a microphone solut= ion to VR home automation,
>and after alot of
> >       research i decided not to. I went = for a cordless phone
>solution instead.
> >       It is just not reliable enough. On= e major point i hated was
>if you have guests
> >       round with kids they too can start= speaking commands.
> >       I saw a few future homes and each = one opted for the phone or
>headset solution.
> >       Check out the orange.co.uk future = home project.
> >
> >       It can be really embrassing siting= with guests trying to
>give commands
> >       to your node0 and getting no respo= nse, whereas the phone
>solution
> >       works i would say 95% of the time = if not more.
> >
> >       Food for thought..........
> >
> >             ---= --Original Message-----
> >             Fro= m: Nikola Kasic [mailto:nikola@k...]
> >             Sen= t: Mon 15/07/2002 16:57
> >             To:= ukha_d@xxxxxxx > >             Cc:=
> >             Sub= ject: RE: [ukha_d] Re: placing microphones...
> >             Pau= l,
> >             I a= m sitting in a sofa opposite the TV and I am
>faced towards TV. Where should I mount my mic? If I mount mic on a
>wall behind me it will be closer to me then to the TV but it will be >behind my back. If I place it behind TV, I'll be faced towards mic,
>but TV will be closer. So, which way to go?
> >             My = original plan is neither. I planned to put it
>above the doors of the lounge, so it would be at on the side, almost >equally distanced from me and TV (slightly closer to TV). But
>distance between me and mic and TV and mic will be about 4-5m, while >distance between me and TV is about 3.5m.
> >             Is = that O.K?
> >             I a= m reading all the theory, but I'm not smarter.
>All the documents are for the environment when you know where
>speaker is standing, so you use different kinds of mics to enhance
>reception from speaker and attenuate the noise. Hence kardioid etc.
>mics.
> >             How= ever, in a flat I'll be moving and for moving
>speakers they recommend using wireless mics which you wear, but you
>don't want those either. So there's no proper solution. I'll asume
>that I'll be in a sofa and try to adjust everything for that
>scenario. All the rest is in god's hands.
> >             Whe= re did you buy your microphones from?
> >
> >             I j= ust ordered mic cable. It would cost me about 44
>quid, because delivery is =A38.
> >             Spo= ke to Mark from West London Elec as you
>recommended.
> >             The= y don't have web site yet (will in a month, he
>said) and their address is 9-11Acton High Road if anyone is
>interested.
> >
> >             You= said that you did a lot of research before
>diving into this. What makes you think that recognition is not good
>because of software and not because of hardware or microphone
>placement?
> >             Did= you ever consider placing wireless microphones,
>instead of wired ones, so you can place more of them, at more
>appropriate places?
> >             Reg= arding noise cancellation, did you consider
>having one mic very close to TV speaker and use that signal for
>cancellation. Maybe having wireless one and place it on top, or
>inside the TV speaker, or inside TV?
> >
> >             Nik=
> >             &nb= sp;     -----Original Message-----
> >             &nb= sp;     From: psghome2002 [mailto:psghome@h...]
> >             &nb= sp;     Sent: 15 July 2002 13:21
> >             &nb= sp;     To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     Subject: [ukha_d] Re: placing microphones... > >             &nb= sp;     I'm emailing several people with the same
>info at the moment - maybe
> >             &nb= sp;     I should put it all down on a web page (if I >ever get the time!).
> >             &nb= sp;     See my comments below (rather long though):
> >
> >
> >             &nb= sp;     > What do you use them for, at the moment? > >
> >             &nb= sp;     Used for Voice Recognition - tried HAL2000
>and HomeVoice. Both got
> >             &nb= sp;     serious limitations in the way I want to use >it though. I've been
> >             &nb= sp;     talking to Dan Hoenhen (ACE) about him
>developing an ACE VR module
> >             &nb= sp;     which could potentially be much more
>flexible than HAL or HomeVoice.
> >
> >             &nb= sp;     Also will use as additional voice/noise
>tracking as part of Comfort
> >             &nb= sp;     alarm system - recording when alarm
>activated. Got a lot to do
> >             &nb= sp;     before that though.
> >
> >             &nb= sp;     > Do you have one in each room, or maybe two=
>in larger rooms like
> >             &nb= sp;     lounge?
> >
> >             &nb= sp;     only one in each room (well 7 so far).
>Although some of my rooms are
> >             &nb= sp;     fairly large, one mic picks up voice OK
>(depending on background
> >             &nb= sp;     noise). Interesting listening to
>conversations - not that I'd do
> >             &nb= sp;     that of course!
> >
> >             &nb= sp;     > Which cable did you use? Someone said that=
>it's very important to
> >             &nb= sp;     put good
> >             &nb= sp;     > quality microphone cable. Where did you >buy it?
> >
> >             &nb= sp;     I agree - mic cable is very different to
>other types of cable. I
> >             &nb= sp;     used an Adastra Z323 cable - 2 cores with
>overall screen.
> >             &nb= sp;     recommended for 'installed' sound
>applications. Got it from  West
> >             &nb= sp;     London Elec - Mark - 0208 9922155. =A335.25
>inc VAT per 100m drum.
> >
> >
> >             &nb= sp;     > And what's your longest run from mic to >mixer?
> >
> >             &nb= sp;     About 20-30m I guess. Mic cable can run much >longer distances
> >             &nb= sp;     though. I've used it on productions in
>excess of 60m
> >
> >             &nb= sp;     > I am sorry for so many questions, but
>there are only few people
> >             &nb= sp;     with
> >             &nb= sp;     > microphones on this group, so you are very=
>valuable source of
> >             &nb= sp;     information.
> >             &nb= sp;     > It seems that the most important thing is<= BR> >placing them.
> >             &nb= sp;     > Where did you place yours?
> >
> >             &nb= sp;     On the wall at light switch height. Although >the guys at Shure are
> >             &nb= sp;     very adamant about not ceiling mounting, I
>did try taping a mic at
> >             &nb= sp;     various points around the room and the
>difference was normally quite
> >             &nb= sp;     small. Best to site it towards where you
>will speak. I suggest you
> >             &nb= sp;     try it like this before running cable.
> >
> >             &nb= sp;     > At the begining, I'll have my microphone >in the lounge only.
> >             &nb= sp;     Therefore, I'll
> >             &nb= sp;     > not use mixer yet (have to save money for<= BR> >it first). That's where
> >             &nb= sp;     it will be
> >             &nb= sp;     > mostly used for giving commands for
>controlling devices. My lounge
> >             &nb= sp;     is
> >             &nb= sp;     > 6.5mx3.8m. Sofa is opposite to the TV and<= BR> >that's where, usually
> >             &nb= sp;     I'll be
> >             &nb= sp;     > giving commands from.
> >             &nb= sp;     > But it's not simple for me to bring
>microphone close to the sofa.
> >             &nb= sp;     How did
> >             &nb= sp;     > you place yours?
> >             &nb= sp;     > How does it behave when TV is playing? Is<= BR> >it capable of
> >             &nb= sp;     distinguishing your
> >             &nb= sp;     > voice from TV voice, or do you have to
>yell?
> >
> >             &nb= sp;     You need to set your expectations as to what >to expect from 'open
> >             &nb= sp;     air voice recognition'. The results will
>range from good to very
> >             &nb= sp;     poor (it's very frustrating when you have to >repeat yourself many
> >             &nb= sp;     times!). VR technology (at least in open
>air) is still limited. If
> >             &nb= sp;     you've got a TV on (depending on volume) the >results will vary a
> >             &nb= sp;     lot. After all, how could the software
>distinguish bet
> >             &nb= sp;     >   which
> >             &nb= sp;     >   > cables they used and wher= e did they
>place microphones.
> >             &nb= sp;     >   > Cheers,
> >             &nb= sp;     >   > Nik
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >       &= nbsp; Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >       &= nbsp; Click here to find your contact
>lenses!
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >   For more information:
>http://www.automatedhome.co.= uk
> >             &nb= sp;     >   Post message: ukha_d@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     >   Subscribe:  ukha_d-subscr= ibe@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     >   Unsubscribe:  ukha_d-unsu= bscribe@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     >   List owner:  ukha_d-owner= @y...
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is s= ubject to
>the Yahoo! Terms of
> >             &nb= sp;     Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >             &nb= sp;     For more information:
>http://www.automatedhome.co.= uk
> >             &nb= sp;     Post message: ukha_d@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     Subscribe:  ukha_d-subscribe@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     Unsubscribe:  ukha_d-unsubscribe@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     List owner:  ukha_d-owner@xxxxxxx > >
> >             &nb= sp;     Your use ches
> >             &nb= sp;     correctly. This of >     = ;              >&= nbsp;  which
> >             &nb= sp;     >   > cables they used and wher= e did they
>place microphones.
> >             &nb= sp;     >   > Cheers,
> >             &nb= sp;     >   > Nik
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >       &= nbsp; Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >       &= nbsp; Click here to find your contact
>lenses!
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >   For more information:
>http://www.automatedhome.co.= uk
> >             &nb= sp;     >   Post message: ukha_d@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     >   Subscribe:  ukha_d-subscr= ibe@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     >   Unsubscribe:  ukha_d-unsu= bscribe@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     >   List owner:  ukha_d-owner= @y...
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is s= ubject to
>the Yahoo! Terms of
> >             &nb= sp;     Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >             &nb= sp;     For more information:
>http://www.automatedhome.co.= uk
> >             &nb= sp;     Post message: ukha_d@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     Subscribe:  ukha_d-subscribe@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     Unsubscribe:  ukha_d-unsubscribe@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     List owner:  ukha_d-owner@xxxxxxx > >
> >             &nb= sp;     Your use acing
>microphones...
> >       PD
> >             &nb= sp;     >   which
> >             &nb= sp;     >   > cables they used and wher= e did they
>place microphones.
> >             &nb= sp;     >   > Cheers,
> >             &nb= sp;     >   > Nik
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >       &= nbsp; Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >       &= nbsp; Click here to find your contact
>lenses!
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >   For more information:
>http://www.automatedhome.co.= uk
> >             &nb= sp;     >   Post message: ukha_d@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     >   Subscribe:  ukha_d-subscr= ibe@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     >   Unsubscribe:  ukha_d-unsu= bscribe@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     >   List owner:  ukha_d-owner= @y...
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is s= ubject to
>the Yahoo! Terms of
> >             &nb= sp;     Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >             &nb= sp;     For more information:
>http://www.automatedhome.co.= uk
> >             &nb= sp;     Post message: ukha_d@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     Subscribe:  ukha_d-subscribe@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     Unsubscribe:  ukha_d-unsubscribe@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     List owner:  ukha_d-owner@xxxxxxx > >
> >             &nb= sp;     Your use ly senses which mic
> >             &nb= sp;     > >        =            >   wh= ich
> >             &nb= sp;     >   > cables they used and wher= e did they
>place microphones.
> >             &nb= sp;     >   > Cheers,
> >             &nb= sp;     >   > Nik
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >       &= nbsp; Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >       &= nbsp; Click here to find your contact
>lenses!
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >   For more information:
>http://www.automatedhome.co.= uk
> >             &nb= sp;     >   Post message: ukha_d@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     >   Subscribe:  ukha_d-subscr= ibe@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     >   Unsubscribe:  ukha_d-unsu= bscribe@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     >   List owner:  ukha_d-owner= @y...
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is s= ubject to
>the Yahoo! Terms of
> >             &nb= sp;     Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >             &nb= sp;     For more information:
>http://www.automatedhome.co.= uk
> >             &nb= sp;     Post message: ukha_d@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     Subscribe:  ukha_d-subscribe@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     Unsubscribe:  ukha_d-unsubscribe@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     List owner:  ukha_d-owner@xxxxxxx > >
> >             &nb= sp;     Your use  if you want more info.
> >
> >             &nb= sp;     >   which
> >             &nb= sp;     >   > cables they used and wher= e did they
>place microphones.
> >             &nb= sp;     >   > Cheers,
> >             &nb= sp;     >   > Nik
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >       &= nbsp; Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >       &= nbsp; Click here to find your contact
>lenses!
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >   For more information:
>http://www.automatedhome.co.= uk
> >             &nb= sp;     >   Post message: ukha_d@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     >   Subscribe:  ukha_d-subscr= ibe@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     >   Unsubscribe:  ukha_d-unsu= bscribe@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     >   List owner:  ukha_d-owner= @y...
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is s= ubject to
>the Yahoo! Terms of
> >             &nb= sp;     Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >             &nb= sp;     For more information:
>http://www.automatedhome.co.= uk
> >             &nb= sp;     Post message: ukha_d@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     Subscribe:  ukha_d-subscribe@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     Unsubscribe:  ukha_d-unsubscribe@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     List owner:  ukha_d-owner@xxxxxxx > >
> >             &nb= sp;     Your use 's their
> >             &nb= sp;     experience,
> >             &nb= sp;     >   which
> >             &nb= sp;     >   > cables they used and wher= e did they
>place microphones.
> >             &nb= sp;     >   > Cheers,
> >             &nb= sp;     >   > Nik
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >       &= nbsp; Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >       &= nbsp; Click here to find your contact
>lenses!
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >   For more information:
>http://www.automatedhome.co.= uk
> >             &nb= sp;     >   Post message: ukha_d@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     >   Subscribe:  ukha_d-subscr= ibe@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     >   Unsubscribe:  ukha_d-unsu= bscribe@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     >   List owner:  ukha_d-owner= @y...
> >             &nb= sp;     >
> >             &nb= sp;     >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is s= ubject to
>the Yahoo! Terms of
> >             &nb= sp;     Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >             &nb= sp;     For more information:
>http://www.automatedhome.co.= uk
> >             &nb= sp;     Post message: ukha_d@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     Subscribe:  ukha_d-subscribe@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     Unsubscribe:  ukha_d-unsubscribe@xxxxxxx > >             &nb= sp;     List owner:  ukha_d-owner@xxxxxxx > >
> >             &nb= sp;     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
>Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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