Re: Re: In celing mics.

["Eamon O'Gorman" <eamonogorman@xxxxxxx>]

Paul,

See my responses below (bit long winded, sorry)

Eamon
----- Original Message -----
From: "psghome2002" <psghome@xxxxxxx>
To: <ukha_d@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:36 AM
Subject: [ukha_d] Re: In celing mics.


> Well - people tend to look at me funny when I mention HA BEFORE I
> talk about voice control, especially when they ask how much it's all
> costing!
>
> A few further questions on the Kustom if you don't mind:
>
> 1) I looked at this to do what you talked about with regard to IR
> distribution. I asked the tech people in the US if it could do this
> but they 'seemed' to suggest that it would only distribute IR
> commands from a zone to it's relevant output i.e. you couldn't get a
> global or summed output. Is this the case?

I have used Kustom to emmit IR from keypads to a summed output which is
connected to HV, so yes, it will do what you mentioned. It also outputs all
received IR commands from an external remote/. I dont have a pronto yet (on
the wish list) so I'm using a basic one for all 4. The aux button on my one
for all, is what I have tought HV to work to. So now, if I point the one
for
all at any keypad, the Kustom repeats this signal onto one of the summed
outputs, which is connected to HV IR rx...... I have also trained the
keypad
source six, all the IR buttons of the one for all Aux function, so I can
control HV from the buttons on the keypad, or by the oneforall pointed at
the IR receive windo of any keypad.

Now, kustom can also be trained macros on the keypad to transmit a series
of IR commands. I have done this, and basically what happens is, if I press
macro 1 on the kustom keypad, the keypad transmits a series of IR commands
which gets HV to run its own macros (bedroom heating on for one hour etc).
As far as wiring the IR is concerend what I have done is this:-

HV located in cupboard next to kustom. I have taken one of the4 available
summed IR outputs from Kustom, and placed the IR led in front of HV IR rx.
.
This gives me full keypad control of HV from anywhere in the house. I have
then taken a second IRsummed output and wired this to a buffalo ir
spliiter,
which in turn has 4 IR outputs wired to all source equipment. HV IR tx, is
also wired to the input of the buffalo splitter, and hence HV can also
control all source equipment.

The reason I used the Buffalo, is firstly, I did'nt want to mess around too
much with Kustoms ir ports, as its probably the more expensive bit to
repair.If something blows, its going to be the boffalo, not Kustom....Also
using the buffalo, allows me to use the same four outputs of the buffalow
to
control the source equipment with either kustom or HV, rather than have
four
outputs from kustom wired to source equipment, and four from HV... To
answer
your question, I have Kustom doing exactly what you have described above,
and it works extremly well.....
>
> 2) I also wanted to be able to control any zone volume, mute etc
> from any other zone using IR commands i.e. using a pronto in
> kitchen, mute volume in Living Room or have HomeVision control all
> or any zones. Is this possible?

This would be more tricky....     There are a couple fo options from
what I can see. Firstly, you can have one keypad control al zones. That is
if you press mute, then all zones mute, volume up, all zones volume up etc.
This keypad is used purely as a master controller. So if you want to do
this, then you will need a 7th keypad. If you have the seventh keypad, then
you should think of some way of placing an IR tx from HV onto the IR rx
window of the keypad. This is not going to do exactly what you want, as the
master controller does teh same thing to all zones.

The other option I suppose would be to put an IR blaster connected from
HV in each room with a keypad. Thes IR blasters would have to be zoned, so
you could direct the IR to only the rooms you wnated to mute etc. Tricky
this, and i dont know how the IR zones on HV work so cnat comment further.
If you do this and dont zone the IR transmits, then you are going to have
the exact same results as using a master keypad...
>
> 3) Will the Kustom 'pass through' IR commands or does it have to
> learn any that it will pass i.e. do you have to teach it every IR
> sequence (with a limit to the number that can be recognised)?

Yes, it will pass through IR commands. Firstly if you have a universal
remote, all you have to do is point it at the IR recieve of the Kustom and
it will pass these IR commands directly through to the IR output of the
Kustom controller. Using a seperate remote, you do not have to teach the
keypads teh IR signal.
You can also teach the keypds IR, for each button, and these IR comands
will
also pass directly through to the ir output of teh kustom main unit.. The
only limit is the number of buttons on the keypads. Each source (6 in
total)
has 20 buttons you can teach, so in theory, you can teach 120 different IR
commands!!!!. Waht I have done is use the first 5 sources for audio (sat,
vcr dvd, radio and cd), and used the sixth source for HV. 20 buttons is
more
than enough to control every finction in HV I think!!.
>
> 4) Which wall plate(s) do you have and how good do they look?

I have the larger keypads that allow full control of source equipment.
You would need these to do much of what you are talking about. They look
well, very neat, and about twice teh size of a single gang light switch.
Admittedly, not as classy as teh more upper range of multi room keypads,
but
I (and more importantly the wife) am happy wiht the look. I can send photos
if you want, just let mo know you email address. I am alsi n the process of
doingup some diagrams of my setup, so I can forward these on to you also
>
> 5) Where did you source your unit from?

Direct from the supplier in the US. Mike Camele is the guy I dealt with,
and very helpfull he was too..

Basically, my curent setup does almost everything you have suggested. The
only thing I have not done is be able to control individual sources from
any
location, and as I mentioned, this would need a bit of thought. To cut a
long story short, I am using my kustom as an IR repeater, so dont see why
you would not be able to also.

Hope I didnt drag on for too long. Let mo know if you want diagrams,
pictures etc...
>
> That's all for the moment!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul.
>
> --- In ukha_d@y..., "Eamon  O'Gorman"
<eamonogorman@e...> wrote:
> > Well, another good point about the Kustom, is that you can use
the
> keypads
> > as an IR repeater system for the house also (although I dont know
> the
> > xantech system, you could probably do the same). I have on of the
> Kustom
> > base units IR outputsd wired to a buffalo IR splitter, and each
> output goes
> > to the source equipment, and one goes to homevision. I have then
> programmed
> > macros into the keypads, which do various things to HV. Four
> Macros for heat
> > (one for each zone, and one for all four zones on a timer). I
also
> have a
> > goodnight macro on all keypads, so when I go to bed at night, it
> tells HV to
> > shut down the house and turn Comfort security on to night mode.
It
> wasnt
> > something I had initially planned on, I thought I would have had
> to install
> > a seperate IR distribution system, but then though of using
> Kustoms keypads
> > and it works great.... That, plus the paging facility for whole
> house
> > announcements makes it very usefull for HA (and its CE
> approved....) It has
> > actually turned out to be a major part of of my HA setup,
> controlling video,
> > tv, sat and DVD functions also.
> >
> >   On the voice control again, I have had some success tonight
after
> > following some tips from Mike Huggins. Pretty accurate
recognition
> (90%) in
> > the test setup I have in my PC room, although this is just using
a
> mixer,
> > without the gates, and one mic only. I think you have to accept
> that in
> > noisy rooms its just not going to be reliable enough, but I
reserve
> > judgement on how usefull its going to be.
> >
> >    I also had homevoice, which has its plus's.. I would argue
that
> the
> > recognition of homevoice may be better as its trained, and each
> specific
> > command is trained, but HAL seems to be more flexible in what it
> can do.
> > Shopping lists (wifey friendly bit, clever marketing by HAL),
> macros, phone
> > facility (and the recognition over the phone is excellent...),
> schedules,
> > reminders, email, news, weather, phone directory and autodialing,
> CID
> > (although I believe there are problems with this in the UK, it
> seems to work
> > to a fashion over here), internet, email, voicemail....  and on
> and on...
> >
> > If the recognition can be good enough, its going to be pretty
cool
> once its
> > working. Although when all is said and done, is VR usefull or
just
> a toy ?.
> > People tend to be interested when you tell them about HA, but
when
> you
> > mention voice control, they tend to look at you funny....
> >
> > Eamon
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "psghome2002" <psghome@h...>
> > To: <ukha_d@y...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 7:10 PM
> > Subject: [ukha_d] Re: In celing mics.
> >
> >
> > > I looked long and hard at the Kustom 6640 - looks pretty
good.
> But
> > > then my eye got drawn by the Xantech switcher which seems
more
> > > flexible (without the paging features though). I'm still not
> > > decided - if only I can figure a way of getting a supplier
in
> the US
> > > to ship Xantech kit here (even with 4% audio goods import
duty
> and
> > > VAT it's CONSIDERABLY cheaper than buying it from here :( )
> > >
> > > Still not sure about voice recognition using HAL/HomeVoice
etc.
> > > Couldn't get HomeVoice to work (W2K or XP not supported) and
HAL
> is
> > > so American (some features don't work outside US). This kind
of
> > > setup is still a way off for the reliable setup that I want
(with
> > > voice recognition in most rooms/zones)
> > >
> > > --- In ukha_d@y..., "Eamon  O'Gorman"
<eamonogorman@e...> wrote:
> > > > I've got a similar set up to the one the chap in the
U.S is
> > > talking about, I
> > > > am using the Kustom 6640, which I hope to be able to
use the
> page
> > > input for
> > > > whole house announcements. As to mounting the mics in
the
> ceiling,
> > > I dont
> > > > see as there is any other real choice,,,,, wall
mounting is
> out of
> > > the
> > > > question (wifey would rather rip out my spine than let
me chase
> > > the walls).
> > > >
> > > >     I got some tips from Mike at letsautomate, so I am
going to
> > > try these
> > > > and see how I get on. If there are any sound engineers
out
> there,
> > > can they
> > > > please explain to me what the hell  "Soft Knee
" or "Hard Knee"
> > > means on a
> > > > liimiter/gate for a start, and then explain what the
other 14
> > > knobs annd
> > > > buttons do.....
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Eamon "Way over my head here" O'Gorman
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "psghome2002" <psghome@h...>
> > > > To: <ukha_d@y...>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 11:43 AM
> > > > Subject: [ukha_d] Re: In celing mics.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I've not done it yet but am planning on doing the
same as you
> > > using
> > > > > Shure intelligent mixer and crown mics. I did get
some advice
> > > from a
> > > > > US based guy - I've copied it below. I'd be VERY
interested
> in
> > > your
> > > > > findings, I'm a few weeks away from the
whole-house retrofit
> of
> > > > > lights,power,CAT5 etc and am still undecided
whether to go
> the
> > > full
> > > > > monty with voice recognition.
> > > > >
> > > > > Paul.
> > > > >
> > > > >
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > > > >
> > > > > Well whole room voice recognition still has a way
to
> > > > > go.  There is just too much background noise to
make it
> > > > > 100%.  Using the local phones work much better
since it
> > > > > reduces the outside noise such as radios, others
> > > > > talking, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am single so that is not as much a problem for
me.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have 4 Crown PZM-11 mikes mounted in the major
rooms
> > > > > feeding into a Shure 410 mixer/gate.  Does a
pretty good
> > > > > job but there are times where I have to turn down
the
> > > > > radio/TV to get understood.  Quieter rooms such as
the
> > > > > bedrooms or bathrooms work much better.
> > > > >
> > > > > If I don't want to turn down the volume due to
guests, I
> > > > > just pick up a phone, dial # and talk to HAL.
> > > > >
> > > > > One caution, do not put the mikes in the ceiling. 
Even
> > > > > Crown states this is not the best place even
though it
> > > > > would seem to be.
> > > > >
> > > > > For the house audio, I have a Kustom unit.  Would
prefer
> > > > > to have the 6640 but it wasn't out at the time I
bought
> > > > > mine.  Would like to upgrade sometime when I find
> > > > > someone that has a need for just a 4X6 instead of
a 6X6
> > > > > unit.  The page function would be great to feed
HAL into
> > > > > so the responses go to all areas.
> > > > >
> > > > > Has doorbell inputs that could be connected to
sensors
> > > > > or X10 devices for notification or alarms.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hope this gives you a little help.  Check out the
Feb
> > > > > issue of Home Automation magazine for a more
complete
> > > > > list of equipment that I have here.  My home is
the
> > > > > Featured home of the month.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Don    K9SOA/4  EM77EX
> > > > >
> > > > > www.k9soa.net
> > > > >
> > > > > Home of "JEANNIE" The House That
> > > > > Listens
> > > > >
> > > > > My voice controlled, automated
> > > > > home that was featured on HGTV's
> > > > > Dream Builder show on home
> > > > > automation
> > > > >
> > > > > Featured Home of the Month
> > > > > Feb 2002 issue
> > > > > Home Automation magazine
> > > > > > Hi Don,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm just about to start a HA project covering
pretty much
> > > > > everything
> > > > > > including Lighting, Security, Heating, Audio
etc. I've got
> a
> > > few
> > > > > > questions I hope you don't mind answering?...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm looking at putting in a whole-house
open-air microphone
> > > > > system - I
> > > > > > presume you use something like this?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've tried HAL2000 with some success just
using a standard
> > > > > microphone.
> > > > > > How accurate (in terms of recognition
accuracy) have you
> > > managed
> > > > > to get
> > > > > > your system? . and how difficult was it to
set up?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What equipment do you use?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Many thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Paul Gale.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In ukha_d@y..., "Eamon  O'Gorman"
<eamonogorman@e...>
> wrote:
> > > > > >    I have just started playing with some
mics/mixers for
> voice
> > > > > control via in ceiling mics. I have a feeling its
going to
> be a
> > > bit
> > > > > of a struggle to get them working reliably, but
thats the
> fun of
> > > > > it....
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   Anyone else tried this, or had any
success/failures. I am
> > > using
> > > > > HAL2000 (which has quite good recognition over
phone and
> using
> > > basic
> > > > > pc microphone), but these limiters and gates are
looking
> pretty
> > > > > complex. I've got the wiring right for my first
mic, and get
> some
> > > > > recognition (although not near as good as with my
pc mic). If
> > > anyone
> > > > > has any tips I'd appreciate it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Eamon
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > For more information: http://www.automatedhome.co.uk
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> > >
> > >
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