Re: Automation in the Bathroom ?

["biggles299 <charles@xxxxxxx>" <charles@xxxxxxx>]

Dare I say it but we're back to the problem of a reliable motion 
detector (although in this case we are talking about a different 
kind of motion!)...........


--- In ukha_d@xxxxxxx, "Nikola Kasic" <nikola@k...>
wrote:
> I knew it...:-).
> Had no problem with smell so far, but that's a good point. 
> I plan to put one of those automatic deodorant dispensers that I 
saw in some
> public toilets. They spray deodorant quickly every x minutes. 
Probably
> that's adjustable.
> And probably simpler then sensors in the loo, although not in true
HA spirit
> :-). They will work even when nobody at home
> Cheers,
> Nik
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Harrison [mailto:Mark.Harrison@e...]
> Sent: 27 December 2002 11:22
> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Automation in the Bathroom ?
> 
> 
> Nikola,
> 
> The missing piece is the "smell of poo". 
> 
> This comes, not from water content, but from sulfur- and nitrogen-
rich
> organic compounds produced by bacterial action. This is also why
> vegeterians have less smelly poo - they aren't eating sulfide-rich
meat
> :-)
> 
> While it's possible to detect "smell" using sensors, it's a
lot 
more
> complex / expensive than a simple humidity detector.
> 
> In rooms which JUST have a shower/bath with no loo, then a
humidity
> detector will be fine.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nikola Kasic [mailto:nikola@k...] 
> Sent: 27 December 2002 11:02
> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Automation in the Bathroom ?
> 
> 
> Mark, what's the purpose of extractor fan? Is it only to extract
> humidity from the bathroom? If that's the case, what's wrong with 
these
> fans with humidity sensor? They are not connected to central 
controller,
> so no logging etc., but it's quick and simple and relatively cheap
> solution. And it's probably more reliable then having sensors in 
toilet
> and shower and applying all that logic (if you flush the toilet 
etc.) I
> thought that the only criteria for starting and stopping the fan 
should
> be level of humidity in the air and humidity sensor provides that 
info.
> Or I'm missing something here? Cheers, Nik
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Harrison [mailto:Mark.Harrison@e...]
> Sent: 27 December 2002 10:21
> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Automation in the Bathroom ?
> 
> 
> The 20 minute timing is specified in the UK Building Regulations.
> 
> It applies to any bathroom/toilet where there is not a window (ie
> typically bathrooms in the middle of the building not adjacent to 
an
> external wall.)
> 
> In this case, the fan must run all the time that the light is on, 
and
> for an additional 20 minutes afterwards.
> 
> 
> It has long been suggested, in HA circles that this "rough and
ready"
> figure is inappropriate. Probably the best suggestion for 
meaningful
> automation came from Phil Harris a year or so ago.
> 
> His suggestion was that, with good occupancy detection, and a 
decent
> controller, it would be worth timing how long the person had been 
in the
> WC, and using THAT to determine how long the fan should run for. 
As we
> are well aware, a "quick slash" typically requires a lot
less 
extraction
> (!) than a "good dump".
> 
> If you added humidity detection to that, to take care of the
shared
> bath/shower/WC room, then all in all, a good formula could be 
arrived
> at.
> 
> The other thing I'd add would be a "was the loo actually
flushed"
> detector. I, for one, will visit the en-suite last thing at night 
to
> clean my teeth, without using the other facilities. In this case,
> there's no need for any fan running.
> 
> I realise that this is drifting a long way from the original 
question...
> However, I think it's all good HA stuff :-)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nikola Kasic [mailto:nikola@k...] 
> Sent: 27 December 2002 10:02
> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Automation in the Bathroom ?
> 
> 
> My extractor fan works on timer, when you turn on the light it 
turns
> itself on. When you turn light off it still works for next 15-20 
min and
> turns itself off. There are two problems with that:
> - it's annoying when it turns itself on and works for 20 min 
during the
> night, when you only go to take a leak, no showering takes place.
> - sometimes 20 min is enough to get rid of humidity, sometimes 
it's not.
> 
> Apparently, there are some extractor fans which have humidity 
sensor,
> and they turn itself on when humidity is above certain trashold. 
Haven't
> seen them, but the guy in electric shop told me about them and 
they cost
> about ?100. Probably that's all of automation that's needed there.
Of
> course, "proper" solution should be to have humidity sensor
(weather
> station) and controller (autom8it) and control the process through
that.
> 
> Cheers,
> Nik
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: geraintuk <geraintwilliams_uk@h...>
> [mailto:geraintwilliams_uk@h...]
>   Sent: 26 December 2002 02:51
>   To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
>   Subject: [ukha_d] Automation in the Bathroom ?
> 
> 
>   Guys, looking for some advice here.
> 
>   I'm cabling now for the master bedroom and en-suite.
> 
>   I need to put in new light circuits and extractor
fans.
>   What i'm having problems getting my head around is the
best way 
to
>   acheive the following :
> 
>   I would like (if even possible due to humidity etc) to
have a
>   circuit which would allow me to use an IP65 light above
the en-
suite
>   shower to turn on when someone gets in the shower cubicle.
I also
>   want the same circuit to turn on the extraction fan
unit.
> 
>   It would be nice if I could also enable local control of
just the
>   fan circuit (and I don't think anymore detail is required
as to 
why)
> 
>   It would also be nice if this could be done on a timer, so
that 
when
>   finished in shower, extractor (and light if it has to be)
stay on
>   for a few mins.
> 
>   I was thinking of maybe a x10 Hawkeye unit, but a) not the
nicest
>   thing in the world to look at, B) not sure how it would
handle
>   humidity.
> 
>   I'm not even sure if this could be done, I don't run
homevision 
etc,
>   just x10.
> 
>   Any pointers would be appreciated.
> 
>   Regards
>   Geraint.
> 
> 
>   http://www.automatedhome.co.uk
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