RE: Re: OT: Domain Names LEGAL Stuff

["Amar Nagi" <amar@xxxxxxx>]

I will rephrase that :-)

i have looked into this b4 and you will find there is not much they can do
UNLESS
the name is a trademark name or a household name like argos. They would
argue
that you having the name will harm their business.

They are trying the normal bully tatics on you, which i personally would
not stand for.
(Sony and Warner Bros Records did this to me over recording contracts and i
told them 
to spin and they backed off after a while and i won). 
They are trying to scare you. It  depends on what you want the
name for ? if you are not fussed then agree a price with them and sell it,
you only  stand to gain

      -----Original Message----- 
      From: Amar Nagi 
      Sent: Fri 09/08/2002 10:54 
      To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx 
      Cc: 
      Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Re: OT: Domain Names
LEGAL Stuff
      
      
      i have looked into this b4 and you will find
there is not much they can do IF
      the name is a trademark name or a household
name like argos.
      They are trying the bully tatics on you
which i personally would not stand for.
      They are trying to scare you.
      It all depends on what you want the name for
? if you are not fussed then
      agree a price with them and sell it, you
only  stand to gain

            -----Original
Message----- 
            From: Nikola
Kasic [mailto:nikola@xxxxxxx] 
            Sent: Fri
09/08/2002 10:42 
            To:
ukha_d@xxxxxxx 
            Cc: 
            Subject: RE:
[ukha_d] Re: OT: Domain Names LEGAL Stuff
            
            
            I would say
that I just plan to start business and have web site in development stage
with name in question, so redesigning it would cost me a money, and I would
ask for £1,000-£2,000 at least. So you can buy something for that money,
at least.
            £100 is
really nothing, if they really want that name. Solicitor probably charges
them £500 a day.
            Cheers,
            Nik

           
      -----Original Message-----
           
      From: Ian Lowe [mailto:ian@xxxxxxx]
           
      Sent: 09 August 2002 10:32
           
      To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
           
      Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Re: OT: Domain Names
LEGAL Stuff
           
      
           
      
           
      Having followed a lot of the stories on the
Register et al, it sounds very
           
      much like you would get spanked into the
floor Martin :(
           
      
           
      Remember .com is *not* a US domain: it's a
*global* domain.
           
      It's just the US mindset that makes it
common for US only companies to use
           
      exclusively .com
           
      
           
      There is a specific .us heirarchy, just as
there is a .uk, and post Sept 11,
           
      this seems to be really taking off.
           
      
           
      if you are registered after them, they are
trading via the .co.uk and you
           
      have not made use of the .com in a
non-infringing way, then if it went to
           
      domain arbitration, you *WOULD* lose.
           
      
           
      personally, I would take money and run.
           
      
           
      Ian.
           
      
           
      -----Original Message-----
           
      From: Martin [mailto:ukha@xxxxxxx]
           
      Sent: 08 August 2002 21:53
           
      To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
           
      Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Re: OT: Domain Names
LEGAL Stuff
           
      
           
      
           
      OK, Thanks Mark
           
      
           
      Sounds like the course of action would be to
transfer the domain to save
           
      any of us getting in the sh_t.
           
      
           
      The passing off bit might be iffy, the names
were redirected initially
           
      but are not now. So would they have a case
based on this ?
           
      
           
      There are so many if's ,my names were
registered after theirs, maybe a
           
      case for passing off ?,  they are
dot.com's - a US name after all, ,
           
      they do not hold the trademark, and heck so
what if I'm not going to use
           
      the names just yet.
           
      
           
      If I transferred the names now would they
have a case at all ?
           
      
           
      
           
      hmmm , I may just have to take the dosh and
buy a useful HA gadget.
           
      Suggestions ?
           
      
           
      Regards
           
      Martin
           
      
           
      
           
      
           
      
           
      
           
      -----Original Message-----
           
      From: mark_harrison_uk1
[mailto:Mark.Harrison@xxxxxxx]
           
      Sent: 08 August 2002 20:43
           
      To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
           
      Subject: [ukha_d] Re: OT: Domain Names LEGAL
Stuff
           
      
           
      
           
      
           
      Bear in mind that I am NOT a lawyer, and
that I am not qualified to
           
      give legal advice. However, I am a senior
manager with overall
           
      responsibility for Domain Name registrations
for a FTSE 100 company
           
      with significant web presences Europe-wide.
The following, however,
           
      is my personal opinion, not that of my
employer.
           
      
           
      Firstly, don't get hung up on the fact they
use solicitors to do
           
      this - several solicitors these days have
Intellectual Property
           
      practices that include Domain Name
protection along with Trademark
           
      protection et al. The company may simply (as
we do) simply have an
           
      outsourcing contract with this firm to do
this - the fact they are
           
      solicitors is neither here nor there - the
fact they are IP
           
      Consultants is...
           
      
           
      Personally, I think that £100 + transfer
costs is fair, and my advice
           
      would be to take it. If the company is a
large, household name, then
           
      they might go to £500 + transfer costs, but
are very unlikely to go
           
      any higher.
           
      
           
      I feel that, actually, the company has acted
reasonably in making you
           
      the initial offer. The fact that they have
threated legal action has
           
      happened only AFTER you have refused to
consider this. However, the
           
      fact that they have increased their offer
suggests that they don't
           
      want to make a big deal out of this (but do
wish to protect their IP.)
           
      
           
      As I see it as a laymam, there are a number
of issues here. The key
           
      issue is that the UK legal system now very
much frowns upon
           
      Cybersquatting - the deliberate registration
of someone elses trading
           
      name with no intent to do anything other
than sell on the domain name.
           
      
           
      However, work through the following:
           
      
           
      1: When did you register the domain names?
If you did so BEFORE they
           
      launched their business, then you could
claim that your intention was
           
      to launch a service using that name.
However, if you did so AFTER
           
      they launced their business, then they could
(potentially
           
      succesfully - this has happened) argue that
you only registered the
           
      name as a cybersquat.
           
      
           
      2: If you have launched any service on the
names that might cause
           
      confusion, then they would have a case under
UK law to proceed
           
      against you for "passing off". If,
however, there is nothing but a
           
      holding page, then you are unlikely to be
deemed to have any
           
      liability in respect of passing off.
           
      
           
      3: The fact that the names are .coms rather
than .co.uks raises the
           
      question of whether the UK courts would have
any jurisdiction. You
           
      could argue that .com is, according the the
standard, intended for
           
      use by US Companies, and that the ONLY basis
for challenging a
           
      registration is that a company has
registered a FEDERAL (not State)
           
      trademark as the contested name, and that US
courts would have
           
      jurisdiction.
           
      
           
      4: What do you intend doing with the
domains? If you haven't used
           
      them for the last 18 months, and
demonstrably had no intention of
           
      doing so AND refused a good faith offer,
then there IS a chance that
           
      the courts could find in their favour, and
you'd be stuffed. The fact
           
      you posted HERE that you'd never used the
domains, and "not bothered
           
      about the names" might be used in
evidence to demonstrate that you
           
      had NOT registered them to set up your own
service with that name.
           
      
           
      5: Do THEY have the name registered as a UK
trademark? If not, then I
           
      don't think they have a leg to stand on
unless you're passing off
           
      (see above.)
           
      
           
      Regards,
           
      
           
      Mark
           
      
           
      
           
      --- In ukha_d@y..., "Alex
Monaghan" <alex@m...> wrote:
           
      > I would guess that if you've paid your
NIC fees and there's no
           
      trademark
           
      > infringement, the you can do what you
like with your domains.
           
      >
           
      > If the only justification for legal
action is that you've not used
           
      them
           
      > AND... you do really want the domains,
then get a cheapo hosting
           
      account and
           
      > attach the names to it, put up a simple
index.html and their
           
      argument is
           
      > blown out of the water :-) If you don't
have one in mind, look back
           
      through
           
      > the archives for a post from Chris Bond
with a subject of "web
           
      hosting
           
      > special offer" (or something
similar), I transferred my domain on
           
      this offer
           
      > with no problems.
           
      >
           
      > > -----Original Message-----
           
      > > From: Martin
[mailto:ukha@o...]
           
      > > Sent: 08 August 2002 17:24
           
      > > To: ukha_d@y...
           
      > > Subject: RE: [ukha_d] OT: Domain
Names LEGAL Stuff
           
      > >
           
      > >
           
      > > Hi all
           
      > >
           
      > > I'm hoping someone can help me out
here, I have registered some
           
      domain
           
      > > names (about 18 months ago, and
they are as yet unused). They are
           
      dot
           
      > > com's.
           
      > > A company has approached me who
own the dot co.uk with the same
           
      name.
           
      > > They initially offered a small sum
(£50 + transfers costs) via
           
      their
           
      > > solicitor, I said not interested.
Now they are saying that I have
           
      not
           
      > > used the name and have no right
too use it and their final offer
           
      is £100
           
      > > + transfer or they will take legal
action !!!
           
      > >
           
      > > Heeelllp, should I say stick up
your ..... or would it mean a
           
      legal
           
      > > challenge costing me loads which I
may or may not win.
           
      > > At the end of the day I'm not that
bothered about the name, is it
           
      best
           
      > > to take what they've offered and
just leave it at that ?
           
      > >
           
      > > Or perhaps I'll transfer the name
for someone else to use.....
           
      > >
           
      > > Cheers
           
      > > Martin.
           
      > >
           
      > >
           
      > > For more information: http://www.automatedhome.co.uk
           
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