RE: Re: OT: Domain Names LEGAL Stuff

["Amar Nagi" <amar@xxxxxxx>]

i have looked into this b4 and you will find there is not much they can do
IF
the name is a trademark name or a household name like argos.
They are trying the bully tatics on you which i personally would not stand
for.
They are trying to scare you.
It all depends on what you want the name for ? if you are not fussed
then
agree a price with them and sell it, you only  stand to gain

      -----Original Message----- 
      From: Nikola Kasic [mailto:nikola@xxxxxxx]

      Sent: Fri 09/08/2002 10:42 
      To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx 
      Cc: 
      Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Re: OT: Domain Names
LEGAL Stuff
      
      
      I would say that I just plan to start
business and have web site in development stage with name in question, so
redesigning it would cost me a money, and I would ask for £1,000-£2,000
at least. So you can buy something for that money, at least.
      £100 is really nothing, if they really want
that name. Solicitor probably charges them £500 a day.
      Cheers,
      Nik

            -----Original
Message-----
            From: Ian
Lowe [mailto:ian@xxxxxxx]
            Sent: 09
August 2002 10:32
            To:
ukha_d@xxxxxxx
            Subject: RE:
[ukha_d] Re: OT: Domain Names LEGAL Stuff
            
            
            Having
followed a lot of the stories on the Register et al, it sounds very
            much like you
would get spanked into the floor Martin :(
            
            Remember .com
is *not* a US domain: it's a *global* domain.
            It's just the
US mindset that makes it common for US only companies to use
            exclusively
.com
            
            There is a
specific .us heirarchy, just as there is a .uk, and post Sept 11,
            this seems to
be really taking off.
            
            if you are
registered after them, they are trading via the .co.uk and you
            have not made
use of the .com in a non-infringing way, then if it went to
            domain
arbitration, you *WOULD* lose.
            
            personally, I
would take money and run.
            
            Ian.
            
            -----Original
Message-----
            From: Martin
[mailto:ukha@xxxxxxx]
            Sent: 08
August 2002 21:53
            To:
ukha_d@xxxxxxx
            Subject: RE:
[ukha_d] Re: OT: Domain Names LEGAL Stuff
            
            
            OK, Thanks
Mark
            
            Sounds like
the course of action would be to transfer the domain to save
            any of us
getting in the sh_t.
            
            The passing
off bit might be iffy, the names were redirected initially
            but are not
now. So would they have a case based on this ?
            
            There are so
many if's ,my names were registered after theirs, maybe a
            case for
passing off ?,  they are dot.com's - a US name after all, ,
            they do not
hold the trademark, and heck so what if I'm not going to use
            the names
just yet.
            
            If I
transferred the names now would they have a case at all ?
            
            
            hmmm , I may
just have to take the dosh and buy a useful HA gadget.
            Suggestions
?
            
            Regards
            Martin
            
            
            
            
            
            -----Original
Message-----
            From:
mark_harrison_uk1 [mailto:Mark.Harrison@xxxxxxx]
            Sent: 08
August 2002 20:43
            To:
ukha_d@xxxxxxx
            Subject:
[ukha_d] Re: OT: Domain Names LEGAL Stuff
            
            
            
            Bear in mind
that I am NOT a lawyer, and that I am not qualified to
            give legal
advice. However, I am a senior manager with overall
           
responsibility for Domain Name registrations for a FTSE 100 company
            with
significant web presences Europe-wide. The following, however,
            is my
personal opinion, not that of my employer.
            
            Firstly,
don't get hung up on the fact they use solicitors to do
            this -
several solicitors these days have Intellectual Property
            practices
that include Domain Name protection along with Trademark
            protection et
al. The company may simply (as we do) simply have an
            outsourcing
contract with this firm to do this - the fact they are
            solicitors is
neither here nor there - the fact they are IP
            Consultants
is...
            
            Personally, I
think that £100 + transfer costs is fair, and my advice
            would be to
take it. If the company is a large, household name, then
            they might go
to £500 + transfer costs, but are very unlikely to go
            any
higher.
            
            I feel that,
actually, the company has acted reasonably in making you
            the initial
offer. The fact that they have threated legal action has
            happened only
AFTER you have refused to consider this. However, the
            fact that
they have increased their offer suggests that they don't
            want to make
a big deal out of this (but do wish to protect their IP.)
            
            As I see it
as a laymam, there are a number of issues here. The key
            issue is that
the UK legal system now very much frowns upon
           
Cybersquatting - the deliberate registration of someone elses trading
            name with no
intent to do anything other than sell on the domain name.
            
            However, work
through the following:
            
            1: When did
you register the domain names? If you did so BEFORE they
            launched
their business, then you could claim that your intention was
            to launch a
service using that name. However, if you did so AFTER
            they launced
their business, then they could (potentially
            succesfully -
this has happened) argue that you only registered the
            name as a
cybersquat.
            
            2: If you
have launched any service on the names that might cause
            confusion,
then they would have a case under UK law to proceed
            against you
for "passing off". If, however, there is nothing but a
            holding page,
then you are unlikely to be deemed to have any
            liability in
respect of passing off.
            
            3: The fact
that the names are .coms rather than .co.uks raises the
            question of
whether the UK courts would have any jurisdiction. You
            could argue
that .com is, according the the standard, intended for
            use by US
Companies, and that the ONLY basis for challenging a
            registration
is that a company has registered a FEDERAL (not State)
            trademark as
the contested name, and that US courts would have
           
jurisdiction.
            
            4: What do
you intend doing with the domains? If you haven't used
            them for the
last 18 months, and demonstrably had no intention of
            doing so AND
refused a good faith offer, then there IS a chance that
            the courts
could find in their favour, and you'd be stuffed. The fact
            you posted
HERE that you'd never used the domains, and "not bothered
            about the
names" might be used in evidence to demonstrate that you
            had NOT
registered them to set up your own service with that name.
            
            5: Do THEY
have the name registered as a UK trademark? If not, then I
            don't think
they have a leg to stand on unless you're passing off
            (see
above.)
            
            Regards,
            
            Mark
            
            
            --- In
ukha_d@y..., "Alex Monaghan" <alex@m...> wrote:
            > I would
guess that if you've paid your NIC fees and there's no
           
trademark
            >
infringement, the you can do what you like with your domains.
            >
            > If the
only justification for legal action is that you've not used
            them
            > AND...
you do really want the domains, then get a cheapo hosting
            account
and
            > attach
the names to it, put up a simple index.html and their
            argument
is
            > blown
out of the water :-) If you don't have one in mind, look back
            through
            > the
archives for a post from Chris Bond with a subject of "web
            hosting
            > special
offer" (or something similar), I transferred my domain on
            this
offer
            > with no
problems.
            >
            > >
-----Original Message-----
            > >
From: Martin [mailto:ukha@o...]
            > >
Sent: 08 August 2002 17:24
            > > To:
ukha_d@y...
            > >
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] OT: Domain Names LEGAL Stuff
            >
>
            >
>
            > > Hi
all
            >
>
            > > I'm
hoping someone can help me out here, I have registered some
            domain
            > >
names (about 18 months ago, and they are as yet unused). They are
            dot
            > >
com's.
            > > A
company has approached me who own the dot co.uk with the same
            name.
            > >
They initially offered a small sum (£50 + transfers costs) via
            their
            > >
solicitor, I said not interested. Now they are saying that I have
            not
            > >
used the name and have no right too use it and their final offer
            is £100
            > > +
transfer or they will take legal action !!!
            >
>
            > >
Heeelllp, should I say stick up your ..... or would it mean a
            legal
            > >
challenge costing me loads which I may or may not win.
            > > At
the end of the day I'm not that bothered about the name, is it
            best
            > > to
take what they've offered and just leave it at that ?
            >
>
            > > Or
perhaps I'll transfer the name for someone else to use.....
            >
>
            > >
Cheers
            > >
Martin.
            >
>
            >
>
            > > For
more information: http://www.automatedhome.co.uk
            <http://www.automatedhome.co.uk>
            > >
Post message: ukha_d@y...
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