RE: X10/Room Occupancy/SWMBO acceptance

[Frost Neil <Neil.Frost@xxxxxxx>]

could you not get a dusk till dawn pir that was attached to the light
switch
/ timer switch on the BSLamp.

Set the time the switch activates, say 11am, the lamp is activated but
doesn't illuminate (due to the dusk till dawn pir). In evening when
SWMBO
goes to bed the pir is activated - switches light on. SWMBO get's into
bed,
switches of light - PIR is deactivated. IF SWMBO can't sleep - switched
light on, read book etc... ,  PIR active "time on" set
to  hours rather than
minutes, switches off when.

PIR set to hours - That way the PIR is only used as initial detection
not
continual.
Dusk Till Dawn - Only want the PIR active at night or when room is
dark.
Lamp auto switch on - PIR is reactivated for the night.

Neil

-----Original Message-----
From: BUTLER, Tony, FM [mailto:roaming@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 06 August 2002 12:49
To: 'ukha_d@xxxxxxx'
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] X10/Room Occupancy/SWMBO acceptance


> It's a training thing though, I told you already to hide the 
> remotes and only leave the Pronto out! :P

hmmm.....

> My SWMBO already uses the Pronto, so, if she switches off the TV
or
> whatever it is easy just to hit her "bed button", problem
solved. Your

Yeah, but SWMBO is going to bed because I am watching some crap TiVo
recorded.
She doesn't need to use a pronto or any other remote for that matter in
order to go to bed - so why should she in the 'improved' automated
home?

Maybe once you are fully automated then the "hassle" of picking
up the
remote and pressing "Nite Nite SWMBO" is more than compensated
for by the
fact that all the required lights come on in front of swmbo and go out
behind her and the electric blanket warms the bed etc etc automagically,
but
until then, it would be an extra unnecessary (to her) step and why
should
she have to do it?

> problem here is that you *need* some compromise on the way
you/SWMBO
> thinks. At the end of the day an automated home cannot and 
> will not act
> as normal IMO and to think that you are, to a degree kidding
yourself,
> if you think it will all work as normal and become automated as
well.

Hey, I can always wish for that can't I? :D

> Yes, as above, although an automated home allows for manual 
> control that
> is not the point of automating it, the point IMO, is to make it as
> transparent to the user as possible and as simple to use as 
> possible. I
> have said many times, if SWMBO cannot use it or understand it
inside
> five minutes then I've wasted my time and it's useless.

But to make it a s transparent as possible, you NEED to be able to
manually
override it.
I don't want to end up having to hand out crib sheets to guests on what
they
should and should not do - DON'T close the curtains manually, Don't use
the
switch built into the bedside lamp, use this keyfob/stick on
switch/wave
your arms about.

If I can have a light come on automatically and pleasantly surprise a
guest/SWMBO the fine - but I also want it to work if they use the wall
switch out of ignorance/fear/whatever of the auto activation....

> That's pretty easy really, just a bit of logic and application of
the
> grey matter should sort that. However, remember that the PIR will
> trigger the light on first before she reaches the timer if you do
it
> right ;) Again though, you can get around that problem too.

You mean when she wants to turn it on again?

I was thinking that once SWMBO turns off the light that it would not be
automatically activated again that evening on the basis that she's
asleep
and if she needs a p*sh, she'll probably want to do it in the dark
rather
than blind both of us with lights!

> > pronto/keyfob/whatever, but I want the house to be 'usable'
also
> without
> > that bedtime flag being set.....
> 
> And therein lays your entire problem...
> 
> In order for any automation system to act it needs to be 
> "told" what to
> do, therefore, to have events run differently at different times
or
> based on whether (for example as in this case) someone is in 
> bed or not
> the controller needs to know that the person has indeed gone to
bed.
> Somehow you have to tell it that!

Yes, but if I forget to tell it anything, I don't want to find that I
now
can't turn on the light because the house doesn't think I should be able
to
or whatever.  This is one reaosn I'm only looking at 'simple'
automation of
a few devices rather than full blown don't touch a thing, the house does
it
all type automation.
Who was it mentioned on the list a few months back about the house
sitter
who dared to manually close the curtains, resulting in the house
getting
totally confused and closing them during the day and opening them again
at
night?   This is the sort of scenario I Want to avoid, so I will
not be
automating my curtains!

> IME (bitter), doing this using times or basing it on device status
is
> far, far to unreliable and results in errors which is ultimately
> self-defeating as then SWMBO will view the system as fundamentally
> flawed from the get-go.

What I'm trying to avoid if possible!

> Sorry Tony but IMO you need some way of SWMBO telling the 
> house that she
> has gone to bed and likewise for yourself to do what you want IMO.

Well yes for the ideal, but I think I can get away with the
semi-automatic
"only activate by PIR if night time and if SWMBO hasn't turned off the
light
tonight" type scenario.  Okay - it means much less automation,
and indeed
lights being left on longer (eg don't turn off light if no activity
until
after midnight) but it also [should] mean that SWMBO has the lights on
when
she wants them on and off when she wants them off!


Tony


***********************************************************************
      Visit our Internet site at http://www.rbsmarkets.com

This e-mail is intended only for the addressee named above.
As this e-mail may contain confidential or privileged information,
if you are not the named addressee, you are not authorised to
retain, read, copy or disseminate this message or any part of it.
The Royal Bank of Scotland is registered in Scotland No 90312
Registered Office: 36 St Andrew Square, Edinburgh EH2 2YB 
Regulated by the Financial Services Authority
***********************************************************************


For more information: http://www.automatedhome.co.uk
Post message: ukha_d@xxxxxxx 
Subscribe:  ukha_d-subscribe@xxxxxxx 
Unsubscribe:  ukha_d-unsubscribe@xxxxxxx 
List owner:  ukha_d-owner@xxxxxxx 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

For more information: http://www.automatedhome.co.uk
Post message: ukha_d@xxxxxxx 
Subscribe:  ukha_d-subscribe@xxxxxxx 
Unsubscribe:  ukha_d-unsubscribe@xxxxxxx 
List owner:  ukha_d-owner@xxxxxxx

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.