RE: PIR types - who knows the difference between lighting optimised PIRs and security optimised PIRs?

["Simon Coates" <ecolume@xxxxxxx>]

Mick, Alan, Patrick ....

 

The PIRs are normally sold with a control unit for switching lighting off (and on) in commercial buildings, but I can supply them separately.  The PIRs trigger a pre-set timer - when this 'times-out' the lighting is switched off.  The PIRs are designed to be fitted in offices etc... placed over desk areas, and to trigger with slight movement.  The detection pattern is basically made up of 3 concentric 'rings' - 14 concentrated zones in the centre, 24 zones from about 1m to 2m then 24 zones from 2m to 3m radius (if at normal ceiling heights) - so there's over 60 zones.  They are simply a sensitive ceiling mounted PIR.

They are £29.50 + VAT each, but the pyro sensor used is expensive.  They come with 2 core screened cable attached (approx. 1.0m) - the screen is used as the ground wire with the other 2 cores being 12V and open collector output.  I'm going to test them with HomeVision's Port B inputs.  Since the inputs are connected to 5V via a 2.7 ohm resistor the PIR 'output' should be able to pull this down to ground  I'm going to test them over the weekend.  Phil Harris is testing one with HV at the moment (?) so he might have the answer soon.

 

I intend to use mine to control heating and lighting.  I've wired for DS18S20s in each room and each radiator/UFH has a separate zone valve.  My schedule will have different setback temperatures depending on whether:

the whole house is vacant (ie. Comfort is set) -  16°C

whether the house is occupied (ie. Comfort is in Day mode) -  20°C

and whether a particular room is occupied (ie. PIR triggered in that room) -  22°C

 

I also intend to have lighting switch on to various scenes depending on occupancy and time of day - eg. Bathroom lights after 12.30pm could switch on at 10% etc...

 

Although occupancy PIRs aren't meant to be used for security applications I've been thinking of using them in certain upstairs rooms which don't have and security sensors back.  For example, if an occupancy PIR was repeatedly triggered over a certain time (ie. an intruder) then HV could tell Comfort.  But I'd have to test it because the PIRs could be triggered by a spider or fly.

 

Simon
Ecolume Lighting Ltd
Bradford

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Mick Furlong <dorsai@xxxxxxx>

To: <ukha_d@xxxxxxx>

Sent: 27 November 2001 20:34

Subject: RE: [ukha_d] PIR types - who knows the difference between lighting optimised PIRs and security optimised PIRs?

> Simon
> 
> I would be
interested in
details on these as well if you don't mind sending
> me
them:)
>
> Ta
> Mick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >
-----Original Message-----
> > From: Simon Coates [mailto:ecolume@xxxxxxx]
>
> Sent: 27 November 2001 20:15
> > To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
> >
Subject: Re: [ukha_d] PIR types - who knows the difference between
>
>
lighting optimised PIRs and security optimised PIRs?
> >
>
>
> > Chris,
> >
> > I'm using separate PIR
detectors - ceiling mount occupancy PIRs and corner
> > mounted
security PIRs.  The occupancy PIRs couldn't be used for
security
>
> because they are too sensitive and would trigger a false alarm. 
Security
> > PIRs have pulse count etc... and circuitry to account
for
things like
> > background heat, sunlight to minimise false
alarms.  There are even quad
> > pyro detectors where all 4
pyros
have to be triggered for the PIR
> > to switch.
> >
Basically
alarm type PIRs aren't any good for occupancy detection and
> >
vice-versa.
> >
> > Best thing to do is keep your
security
system separate from your
> > HA sensors.
> >
>
> The
occupancy PIRs I'm going to use in my house are very
> > sensitive
and
will
> > trigger with slight movement.  Certain, larger rooms
will
require 2
> > detectors to cover the whole area.  I'll send
you
some info on them.
> >
> >
> > Simon
>
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
From:
Chris Langridge <chrisl@xxxxxxx>
> > To: <ukha_d@xxxxxxx>
> >
Sent: 27 November 2001 18:40
> > Subject: [ukha_d] PIR types - who
knows the difference between lighting
> > optimised PIRs and
security
optimised PIRs?
> >
> >
> > > I'm doing some
research about PIR's. Have been talking to
> > Philips who do
a
>
> > very nice range of flush mount devices. Then I discovered
(as
>
> usual) that
> > > there's a whole bunch of stuff I'm not
clear
about.
> > >
> > > According to Philips the PIRs
built
for lighting control are more
> > sensitive
> > > than
those used for security. The reason of course, is false alarms, and
>
>
the
> > > fact that people wathcing the telly don't move as
much as
bandits.
> > >
> > > If this deifference in
sensitivity
is the case, what are you
> > guys using to
> > >
control
lighting AND security?
> > >
> > > Also: The
Philips 12
volt units have an inbuilt timer. They need three
> >
wires
>
> > (live, neutral and switch). They are normally open, and close
when
> > movement
> > > is detected. Depending on how
the
timer has been set, the contact will
> > stay
> > >
closed
for say 5-30 minutes. Now I thought most PIR's purely provide a
>
>
> signal which the HA controller will use according to it's own
>
>
logic. I had
> > > never thought that a contact would be closed
for
say ten
> > minutes and then
> > > released. Have I
missed
something critical here? Can Comfort or
> > HV handle
> >
>
this kind of input, and what kind of processes are you guys using
to
>
> control
> > > lighting if using standard (is there such a
thing!) PIRs.
> > >
> > > Sorry if this is all very
basic - I'm just getting upto speed
> > on 'sensors'
> >
>
and have not even purchase my HA interface yet.
> > >
>
>
> Thanks
> > >
> > > Chris
> >
>
>
> >
> > > For more information: http://www.automatedhome.co.uk
>
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> >
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> >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> > For more information: http://www.automatedhome.co.uk
>
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