Re: Energy use in "off mode" with X10 modules and LED light bulbs

[Brian W. Antoine <briana@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Sun, 28 Aug 2016 07:40:03 -0400, Art Todesco <actodesco@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

>On 8/27/2016 6:11 PM, Brian W. Antoine wrote:
>> On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 07:56:46 -0400, Art Todesco <actodesco@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/22/2016 1:05 AM, isw wrote:
>>>> In article <obkkrb9p5sv79au1u3llbfmn4sumjcsski@xxxxxxx>,
>>>>  Don Wiss <donwiss@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 21:09:33 -0700 (PDT), marklewesq@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Does anyone know if there are any ill effects from using LED lamps with X10
>>>>>> modules.  It is pretty well known that when "off", the LED's dim but stay
>>>>>> lit.  If I do not care bout them being completely off (like in a closet,
>>>>>> stairwell, or garage ...), how much current drain is there if I just let
>>>>>> them glow slightly.  I am switching 11 watt LED's for 13 watt CFL's.  If the
>>>>>> drain is over 2 watts, then switching would not help much. If drain is
>>>>>> lower, then it might make sense to let them glow in the off position.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also don't understand that in one circuit it is half brightness when off,
>>>>>> but in another, the glow is only noticeable in complete darkness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am using Phillips non-dimmable, but they do dim - maybe they might burn
>>>>>> out sooner.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can always use an appliance module. Simply all on or all off.
>>>>
>>>> Yup, but noisy.
>>>>
>>>> Isaac
>>>>
>>> And still the small "leakage" continues because of the local control
>>> sense current.  So, the lamp will still light dimly or flicker.  I've
>>> removed the resistor (plenty of on line sites tell how).  If the clicks
>>> bother you, you can modify an lamp module to make it a click free
>>> appliance module (again several sites show how).  I have done this to
>>> several modules and they work just fine with CFLs and now LEDs.  One
>>> such module seems to get stuck in the on state after a short power
>>> glitch.  I have to then do a clean power cycle to get it back to normal.
>>
>> There are modern applicance modules that still click loudly?  I think I
>> swapped out my last original X-10 module for something programmable and
>> silent at least 10 years ago.  You should also be able to program whether
>> the "local on" feature is active, which is usually what wants to pass that
>> small trickle current through the appliance to detect the local switch
>> being toggled.  That's the current that is just enough to make a high
>> efficiency light like an LED come on dimly.
>>
>The programmable appliance modules I've used, Smarthome, still squirt a
>current through the appliance (lamp) for the local on/off function.
>And, as I recall, the current is still present even when the local
>on/off function is unused.  The current for these modules is much
>smaller than that of regular older design modules, but still can make a
>string of LED Christmas lights glow dimly, but less than the regular
>modules.

Ok, good to know.  I'd have thought by now that companies making these
modules would have dealt with the LED issue, but maybe not.  The module
has to get power from someplace to operate.  The really old X-10 stuff
was two wire, it got it's power via a trickle current through the load.
With modern three wire modules, I'd have expected that when you turned
off the local sense feature, it really did mean do not pass current
through the load.

One of the last old style appliance modules I swapped out was for my
Christmas Tree lights.  It was loud and I had to put a 4W nightlight
on the circuit also, otherwise the trickle current from the LED's was
enough to trip the local sense and a few seconds after I turned the
lights off, they'd come back on.  The ICON module that I used next
was both silent and the lights stayed off.