Re: Web Enabled Time/Temp/Humidity and I/O Controller

[RickH <passport@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Nov 8, 11:58=A0am, "Robert L Bass" <Sa...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> "RickH" wrote:
>
> >>> Nobody ever seems to consider that the CFL is
> >>> already playing catch up with the incandescent
> >>> next to it on the store shelf in terms of carbon
> >>> usage...
>
> >> That's an interesting theory but unless you can
> >> provide statistics to back it up, I'll have to consider
> >> it just that -- one man's theory. I'm not saying
> >> you're wrong yet.
>
> > Well, I count over 35 parts average in the 14 CFL
> > schematics here with some ballasts having 50 parts...
>
> By statistics I was not referring to parts count. =A0Do you have actual s=
tatistics
> pertaining to the environmental impact of CFL's vs. incandescant bulbs?
>
> > As opposed to 5 or 6 very non-complex elemental-like
> > parts in an incandescent...
>
> The problem isn't how many parts there are. =A0It's how much energy it co=
nsumes.
> In that regard CFL's are way ahead. =A0Again, they're not perfect and the=
y may not
> be the long-term choice. =A0But for the time being, CFL's give much more =
light
> using much less energy, thus ergo much less coal and therefor, do less ha=
rm to
> the planet.
>
> For me personally it wouldn't be that much of an issue as I don't expect =
to be
> around long enough to see the worst consequences of what humans are doing=
.
> However, I think we all have a responsibility to do whatever we can to re=
duce
> our "footprint".
>
> > The question is can the CFL recover the obviously larger amount of wast=
e it
> > caused just to get it to the shelf, than the path the simple incandesce=
nt
> > followed to get there next to it?
>
> Even considering what you've mentioned so far, it's not a given that CFL'=
s
> create that much waste. =A0Further, it's certain that using conventional =
bulbs
> causes much harm.
>
> > If it could then, then I agree its a good thing, but based on the fact =
that
> > many of my CFL's have not lasted as long as my incandescents I
>
> have to wonder.
>
> That is a valid point. =A0I have not tested a lot of makes but the ones I=
 have in
> place have not given me any problems to date. =A0Only time will tell.
>
> > Also does one even bother to add in the cost of a resistor factory (whi=
ch
> > would be making resistors anyway)?
>
> Probably not. =A0Companies that make resistors make othert things as well=
 and
> would still be present even if CFL's were never introduced.
>
> > All things manufactured have a deeper cost, I just see the incandescent=
 having
> > a very low manufacturing cost...
>
> Ford's Model A cost a lot less to build than a Prius. =A0Care to guess wh=
ich one
> is more destructive to the environment (when actually operating)? =A0:^)
>
> --
>
> Regards,
> Robert L Bass
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>
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At first people said ethanol was a net energy saver too.  But after a
similar analysis (like including the manufacturing chain above in
total cost) it is now well-agreed that E85 uses more energy to get
that gallon to the pump than the gasoline in the next pump.  I say a
CFL takes significantly more energy to become a CFL than a light bulb
takes to become a light bulb, if you add in the cost of making all the
parts required.  But political forces keep the E85 refineries going
regardless of E85 net carbon unfavorability.  But politics trumps a
deeper analysis of any so-called energy saving device once the device
has been sold as a savior.  The laws of thermodynamics still apply,
those resistors, capacitors, transistors and diodes still take enrgy
to make.  But denial is a big part of both sides in the green
movement.  All those parts didn't simply get there by magic, it could
easily take more energy to make just one electrolytic capacitor than
an incan. bulb considering the chemical electrolyte production, foil
production, plastic production, etc.