Re: 32 years using x-10

["Robert Green" <ROBERT_GREEN1963@xxxxxxxxx>]

"greenpjs" <greenpjs@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote

< >>>stuff snipped>

> >That's good.  It will save you a few bucks to build your own.  I think
> >you'll find Jeff's assembly instructions quite thorough and if you buy
the
> >parts kit, that it's quite well-marked.

> I decided to order the fully assembled unit.  The extra cost was
> minimal and I'll be able to try it the day it arrives.

Even better choice.  You'll be impressed by the quality of his assembly work
and I think you'll end up with a better product because even if you're a
super-solderer, he's already built 100's of them and knows all the tricks.

> >That already tells me something.  The ESM1's biggest weakness, compared
to
> >something like the Monterey Powerline Signal Analyzer, is the noise
readout
> >at low levels.  The LED bars just can't compare to the PLSA's digital
> >readout of the noise level in millivolts.  The PLSA also takes noise
> >readings at two different points on the AC cycle.  It's how I was able to
> >find the most recent noisemaker in my house, a shoplite whose bulbs were
> >just about burned out.  By moving the PLSA down each outlet in the
circuit,
> >it was easy to determine whether I was moving toward or away from the
noise
> >source.

> I have a basement full of cheap shoplite's (6 of them).  When they are
> on, I definitely have issues, but they aren't typically on.

They really have to be behind filters.  A lamp that had checked out as "X-10
safe" when the bulbs were new began emitting interference in the X-10 band
at nearly 2 volts as the bulbs aged.  Since I had previously checked it for
X-10 issues and it passed, it was the last place that I looked.  You can get
a 20A in-line filter to cover entire light string or buy some more filters
for each lamp.  eBay usually has them for 1/3 of what you'd pay from even
the cheapest places like Worthington.

It's a sad but true fact of life that more and more electronics have to
placed behind X-10 filters, especially some of the really inexpensive Chez
Chinois stuff.  As much as I hate spending $ on filters, I realize that I
can get quite a few for the price of one of the newer protocol modules.
What I dislike more is having yet another box hanging from the outlet,
although most modules, except for the basement, are out of sight.  One of
the pending "honey do" projects is to conceal both a module and a filter in
the lamp my wife just brought home.  Fortunately, it's got a huge ceramic
base.  The big issue there is going to be how to keep local control working
while insuring that the lamp does not relight itself or flash every few
seconds.

> >Fluorescents are particularly problematic in this regard.  If you're
> >anywhere near the nation's capital, I'd be happy to drop by and scope
things
> >out with the Monterey for you.  I've not yet found a problem it couldn't
> >solve or at least shed some light on.

> Thanks for the kind offer, but you would have an 8 hour drive to
> northeastern Ohio.

Oh well.  Worth a shot since X-10 debugging goes faster with two people.
I'll bet we can fix you up remotely, though.  Your system seems to have
evolved rather typically and it's not the largest nor most complex sounding
one we've encountered.

> >The RR has collision detection, but the TM doesn't.  If the RR starts
> >transmitting on a clear line, the TM751 can very easily begin
transmitting
> >as well, and collisions result.  Collisions reveal themselves by working
> >*eventually* if you keep pressing the buttons long enough.  A noise or
> >signal sucker problem usually won't work at all, no matter how long you
> >press the buttons.  One other thing I did was to remove all transceivers
> >from the line except a single WGL all housecode unit:

> I oversimplified my original description of my system.  I have a few
> modules performing a special function on a 2nd housecode.  The TM is
> on the other house code.  The RR works best on the main house code,
> but both work.  The TM only rarely receives RF commands so it should
> only rarely send X-10 commands.  Please correct me if that is wrong.

Yes, that's correct.  The TM is deaf to PLC commands.  The TM acts as a
signal sucker, though, and in the wrong place can adversely effect PLC
traffic.  When I removed the whole shebang of RR's and TM's I had, the
overall signal strength went back up from millivolts to tenths of a volt and
more all over the house.  Probably not the issue in your case, though.  I'm
using nearly every housecode so I had a few more transceivers on line than
most people!  For a while around 2000 X-10 was giving TM-751's away with
everything they sold and whenever I buy an entire lot of X-10 gear from
eBay, there are a few more.

> >Do your intermittent issues disappear if you use only one
> >transceiver or would removing one unit make it impossible to tell because
of
> >range limitations?

> The WGL would let me eliminate the 2nd transceiver, but for the reason
> I stated above, I doubt that is the problem.

I doubt it, too.  If you ever need a range boost for the RF in the future,
it's certainly something to consider.  My bet is on the shoplites for now,
and overall signal attenuation in general.  I'm still of the opinion that
there's a signal sucker/noisemaker or two that's running unfiltered only
because even with my practice of vetting every new thing I buy with the
Monterey analyzer, some sneak by.  Before the shoplite's aging turned to the
Dark Side, it was two surge suppressor power strips that tested fine by
themselves but dropped the signal significantly if one was plugged into the
other one.

> >> Anyway, thanks to all who replied.  You have been very helpful.
> >
> >Let us know how it all works out!

> Will do.  Jeff emailed me and said the XTB-IIR will ship next week.

That's slow for him!  He must have been away.  (-:

In the meantime, I'd search eBay or somewhere for some more filters.  Every
time I buy, I buy in quantity and wonder: "Am I buying too many?"  But
that's never been the case. )-:  It will soon be time to buy more, I'm
afraid, as I convert everything over to CFLs.

--
Bobby G.