Re: CFLs flicker when Wall Swtich WS467 is OFF

["Jim Hewitt" <jim.hewitt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

"Robert Green" <ROBERT_GREEN1963@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:BZ-dnc3H36JzD0fanZ2dnUVZ_oKhnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxx
> "Jim Hewitt" <jim.hewitt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:fqn0ll$9vd$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Howdy,
>>
>> I've been slowlyg trying CFLs in the house to see if they work OK wtih
>> our
>> X10 installation.  We've decided that the quality of light is acceptable
> for
>> the energy $ savings.
>>
>> But, when I put some (N:Vision from Home Depot) 60W CFLs in the kids'
>> room
>> overehad light, controlled by a WS467, everything was fine until I turned
>> the lights off.  They don't go fully off!  We get a very low light
> flicker,
>> probably 5-10 times a second.  I triple-checked, the wall switch was not
>> dimming the lights.
>
> The N:Visions are the best of the CFL's I've tried so far, but with single
> fixture overhead lights governed by a WS467, I get some pretty awful
> results.  TGD in the X-10 support forum recently suggested a "fix" here
> that
> involves inserting resistors into light fixtures:
>
> http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=14210.0
>
> but a knowledgeable person I asked had profound reservations about such a
> "fix" or more exactly the resistor ratings given as examples. It would be
> *very* nice to maintain local sense and eliminate the flashing problems,
> but
> it seems as if it's one or the other.  I'm in the midst of a complete
> rewire
> of my house, bringing neutrals to places where I really want to use a CFL
> bulb but can't because of the havoc it causes X-10.  It's a real bitch and
> in many cases I am just running a new cable to a new fixture from the
> basement up.  I want the option for tungsten in the real cold weather and
> dual fixtures would allow that.  Not sure of the SAF, but I'll find out.
> The light switch wires that came with the house go from the basement to
> the
> attic and then fan out and drop down.  Not an easy task to add a neutral
> wire.
>
> It's too bad they haven't designed a CFL that simulates a tungsten bulb's
> electrical properties more closely.   I just bought a brand new batch of
> bulbs of various wattages from HD.  I've found the electronics in CFL's
> varies from brand to brand and from batch to batch and I wouldn't be
> surprised if someday they produce a bulb that's completely X-10
> compatible.
> And affordable.  (-:  So, let me save this message and try out the new
> bulbs
> on my overhead lights.
>
> (much "screwing" around . . .)
>
> OK, I'm back.  I tried the brand new N:vision SKU 772-20 Model ES42 42W
> V42836 (I hope that last number's not a firmware version number!) in the
> hopes that the larger wattage and the more recent vintage would help and
> it
> flickered.  I thought that the 13W load of the 60W "equivalent" bulb
> caused
> problems because it was below the 25W threshold X-10 recommends for lamp
> loads.  There was no difference between the two.  I took a camera and made
> a
> swipe image at 1 second and counted 6 images of the bulb, so I believe
> it's
> 6 flashes per second.  (-:
>
>> We get a very low light flicker,  probably 5-10 times a second.  I
> triple-checked, the wall
>> switch was not dimming the lights.
>
> I think the module's electronics are not working and probably couldn't
> dim,
> even if you wanted to dim them.  At least mine don't.  Unlike your lights,
> there's no option to put in a smaller bulb to carry the trickle in my
> overheads.  But in thinking about it more, running a big CFL at the
> ceiling,
> base up isn't a good idea, even though my lamp shade allows good air
> cooling.  Virtually every very premature failure I've had (20+ and
> counting)
> with CFL bulbs has been in a base-up configuration.  I need to find some
> torchiere lamps specifically designed for large CFL's so the bulb head
> doesn't sit above the lamp rim.  Then I can use RF switches and perhaps
> even
> preserve local control.
>
> Anyone having this problem with N:Vision CFL's should report it to their
> tech support hotline at 1-800-378-6998.  They can't find a solution for
> the
> problem if they don't know it exists or how many people it affects.  My
> three biggest gripes are:
>
> 1) The bulbs don't shut off completely and flicker about once a second,
> sometimes for hours.  I know from the new HE shoplight that I bought that
> this causes premature aging.  Only one bulb of the 2 strip 48" fixture
> flashed, and that's the one that six months later has large dark spots at
> the end of the bulb.
>
> 2) The lamps "relight" themselves, which I believe is an extension of
> number
> one, but in this case, the trickle current doesn't just cause a flash, it
> makes the module think the light switch has been "jiggled."
>
> 3) The problem you're having of the bulb flashing wildly in a fixture that
> doesn't have a direct connection to a neutral wire.
>
> I'd like dimming to be seamless, too, but I can live without it if I can
> get
> some relief on one through three!
>
> It may be that with some circuit redesign they can eliminate or ameliorate
> some of the problems.  What I find most troublesome are lamps that test
> fine
> when I first got them but as they age, begin emitting noise strong enough
> to
> step on the X-10 signal.

I'll think about calling the hotline - unless it means an endless navigation
and then wait through phone menus.  But you're right - they can't address an
issue if they don't know about it.

I am not currently experiencing any no flicker or re-lighting - except as I
already desribed with the ws467.  As for the fix, it is in a way similar to
the other patch of putting a small wattage bulb in parallel.  But somehow I
also have a  funny feeling about the resistor.  Like I said, my current plan
is to use one of each type bulb since the fixture holds two bulbs.

Not dimming is not an issue.  I rarely use diming for mood or ambience, but
rather for energy savings.  With CFLs, we're already there*!     *We hope...

I'm most concerned about the premature failure when installed base-up.  The
biggest (energy) savings I hope to realize is using the flood CFLs in our
kitchen recessed lighting - thse are ALL base up.  Normally 300 watts
incandescent for a good half of the day.  I calculate that it will only take
about 5-6 months to pay for the CFL bulbs with the energy savings.  If they
fail prematurely because they are base-up, then what savings do I have???

Also, my overhead lights are in an enclosed fixture.  Will I also see
premature failure in htis installation?  It is hard for me to detemine if
there will really be any savings as I don't know how long these lights are
on each day - certinaly no more than an hour or two.

As for premature failures - do you have much luck in getting reimbursed by
either HD or N:Vision when they fail early?  The package LOUDLY claims that
they will last 7 years...  If I don't get at least a year, then I don't
think it's worth the effort/risk (mercury disposal).

And the increased noise with age is also troubling.  I thought life was good
when I got several CFLs in and X-10 still works OK (for other lights).  But
if my X-10 is going to get swamped over time, them I have lost.  Do you also
see this with the N:Vision CFLSs?

Thank you.

Jim