Re: CFLs flicker when Wall Swtich WS467 is OFF

["Robert Green" <ROBERT_GREEN1963@xxxxxxxxx>]

"Jim Hewitt" <jim.hewitt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

<stuff snipped>

> I'll think about calling the hotline - unless it means an endless
navigation
> and then wait through phone menus.  But you're right - they can't address
an
> issue if they don't know about it.

Exactly.  I'll see if I can find you  shortcut through the menus - there's
actually a website that maintains a database of 800 numbers and what keys
you can press to hasten your connecting to an actual human operator.  In any
even, I think it's important that bulb makers get good feedback from users.
CFLs have improved dramatically in the last 5 years or so.  My first big
batch of GE's were outrageous signal suckers.  Now, the problem is
"relighting" and noise and not so much signal sucking.

> I am not currently experiencing any no flicker or re-lighting - except as
I
> already desribed with the ws467.  As for the fix, it is in a way similar
to
> the other patch of putting a small wattage bulb in parallel.  But somehow
I
> also have a  funny feeling about the resistor.  Like I said, my current
plan
> is to use one of each type bulb since the fixture holds two bulbs.

That's an OK solution.  I adopted the same with a string of basement lights.
The one right over the stairwell is tungsten because I don't want to miss a
step because a bulb didn't warm up fast enough.  Our basement gets pretty
cold in winter, especially when we "zone it off."   Slow warm is a real
problem there as well as in outbuildings and attached, unheated garages.

> Not dimming is not an issue.  I rarely use diming for mood or ambience,
but
> rather for energy savings.  With CFLs, we're already there*!     *We
hope...

That's one of those devilish tradeoffs.  CFLs don't dim well and people who
ran their tungsten lights dimmed are probably not happy about it.  I don't
dim lights much, but I like having the ability to do it.  When there's
snowcover, I dim the outside lights nearly 50% and the highly reflective
snow picks up the slack.  (-:  The outside lights are all "neutral free" and
are incompatible with CFLs.  Not only will they not dim, they flicker like
strobelights.   )-:

> I'm most concerned about the premature failure when installed base-up.
The
> biggest (energy) savings I hope to realize is using the flood CFLs in our
> kitchen recessed lighting - thse are ALL base up.  Normally 300 watts
> incandescent for a good half of the day.  I calculate that it will only
take
> about 5-6 months to pay for the CFL bulbs with the energy savings.  If
they
> fail prematurely because they are base-up, then what savings do I have???

Clearly, premature failure is going to eat into your saving, particularly if
you can't get reasonable warranty replacements.  My suggestion is to mark
all the bulbs going into the can fixtures with a Sharpie so you can tell how
long they last.  My large Lights of America failed very quickly in a base up
configuration.  It's obvious because there's no discoloration of the plastic
or dark spots at the end of the spiral tubes, and that occurs with most
bulbs after just a few hundred hours of 'on' time.

Since I am temperature obsessed, I would probably stick the wired probe from
one of my remote thermometer inside the can to monitor actual operating
temperatures.  There may be ways to improve the air circulation around the
fixtures.  It may also be that you can replace the fixtures with ones that
are CFL friendly: larger, roomier and with better ventilation.  I have
noticed that most of my new light fixtures have much more room around the
lamp sockets to accommodate the much-larger-than-tungsten CFL lamp bases.
The failures I had were in older style reflector lamps that accommodated
large CFL bulbs, but didn't provide a whole lot of space around the
electronics "bay" of the CFL bulb.

> Also, my overhead lights are in an enclosed fixture.  Will I also see
> premature failure in htis installation?  It is hard for me to detemine if
> there will really be any savings as I don't know how long these lights are
> on each day - certinaly no more than an hour or two.

The best advice I can give you is to do what I do.  Mark the bulbs with
incept dates and keep a spreadsheet or database of their location,
approximate use, etc.  Among the improvements I've seen in CFL's is an
increased resistance to temperature-related problems.  It could be with the
right bulbs you'll experience the long life touted on the packages.

> As for premature failures - do you have much luck in getting reimbursed by
> either HD or N:Vision when they fail early?  The package LOUDLY claims
that
> they will last 7 years...  If I don't get at least a year, then I don't
> think it's worth the effort/risk (mercury disposal).

I have kept all my packaging and receipts, but have not sent or returned any
bulbs in a long time since I wanted to keep the bulbs for failure analysis
and eventual recycling.  Now that I have cut enough apart to satisfy my
curiosity, I may indeed do a big test mailing and send back all the failed
bulbs to their makers so I can report back who's naughty and who's nice.
The problem, for me at least, is that it makes little economic sense to
return single bulbs, one-at-a-time to the vendor or manufacturer.  But now I
have two whole boxes of dead bulbs I'd like to turn in, as long as I get
enough back to cover the postage and time spent returning them.

> And the increased noise with age is also troubling.  I thought life was
good
> when I got several CFLs in and X-10 still works OK (for other lights).
But
> if my X-10 is going to get swamped over time, them I have lost.  Do you
also
> see this with the N:Vision CFLSs?

My main gripes with N:Vision consist mostly of the flashing of the lights
after they've been turned out by X-10.  We use a lot of floor lamps so
killing local sense isn't what I want to do.  The problem with lights that
"after flash" is they burn out prematurely and dim considerably before
reaching end-of-life.  In certain areas, my wife refuses to use them because
of the ever increasing warm up times required and their impact on safety.

The N:Vision bulbs represent a substantial leap in usability and
reliability, particularly in an X-10 environment and I am thankful that a
fellow CHA'er pointed them out to me.  But they're still a long way from
being the functional equivalent of an incandescent bulb.  I suspect because
of the basic design, they'll never reach parity with tungsten bulbs in areas
like watts per cubic inch of lightbulb, steady light output throughout the
entire life cycle, resistance to high temperatures and ecological safety.
They'll probably eliminate the need for having a neutral at each switch box
on the same day I complete my house rewiring to provide neutrals to each
switch. )-:

--
Bobby G.