Re: XPS3 Strangeness

["Robert Green" <ROBERT_GREEN1963@xxxxxxxxx>]

"David White" <whitedavidp@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:laKdnfzmKaQr94nVnZ2dnUVZ_tOtnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<stuff snipped>

> Thanks for the responses, Robert.
>
> As I understand it, each alternating row of breakers (left/right) gets
> its power from alternating sides of the supplied power. So the first row
> gets its power from supply A while the second gets its power from supply
> B and the third from supply A, etc, etc. Is this correct?

In most US homes that's the case.  The XTB-IIR is usually installed
connected to a double pole breaker that can shut down both phases if either
protected circuit overloads.

> With the above assumed, I did some checking and I believe that the
> interior light circuit and the circuit on which the mini controller is
> installed come off two different supplies (A and B) and this would cause
> problems. I also found that the exterior light circuit was on the same
> supply at the mini controller. This would explain why it worked first
> time, every time.
>
> To confirm this, I moved the controller to a different part of the house
> where it appeared the power is supplied from the same source as the
> garage interior light circuit. In this configuration, the mechanism
> seems to work flawlessly. I would expect, however, that such a change
> would result in a degrading of operation on the exterior light circuit.
> But it does not appear to have that result. Perhaps it is due to the
> lack of fluorescent fixtures on the exterior light circuit (at least for
> now).

Ah, the Dance of The Dead Signal begins!  (-:  Seriously speaking, without
coupling and amplification, these sorts of "works from here but not from
there" issues only mushroom.  Plug in a noisy CFL or a signal sucking UPS in
a "critical" location and a lot of stuff can suddenly just stop working.

> I still need to check the circuits on which my CM11A and Radio Shack
> timer/controller are located but it seems I have a 50% chance of their
> being on the "wrong" side as well.

One of the "workarounds" I used was to install a number of mini-timers
throughout the house on various branch circuits so that when we were away,
the lights would come on around the house, not just the ones nearest the
controller.  That was actually one of the more effective workarounds because
the timers were cheap ($18 each when RadioShack was closing out X-10 stuff)
and they didn't interfere with each other.  When we weren't on travel, I
disabled the timers by placing them behind X-10 filters so they would
maintain their timer settings but not be able to turn on any lights.  A
kludge, to be sure, but vastly superior to the multiple mechanical wheel
timers we *had* been using.  It's much nicer to let a centralized home
controller do that sort of thing.  The XTB is really useful for the CM11A
because that device has one of the lowest voltage levels of all the X-10
transmitters.

> So it appears that I might need a coupler/repeater. I have been reading
> and trying to understand Jeff's site. It is a bit much for me
> technically. Your article helps a little more but I still feel a bit
> lost.

)-:  I tried hard to strip away the "too technical for beginners" stuff, but
it appears I need to try again.  I appreciate the feedback.  It took me a
while to spin up on the whole subject, but I am sure you'll get there.  I'll
have to give a thought to writing a more basic description of how it all
works.  For now, there's a good explanation here about couplers and phases:

http://www.x10ideas.com/articles/displayx10article.asp?articleid=9&title=Com
mon%20X-10%20Problems

a.k.a.  http://tinyurl.com/6rhry2

> One thing for sure is that I would need an assembled unit from
> Jeff. I have no real electronic skills (I am a software guy and hardware
> escapes me).

The only soldering skills I have are bad ones <g> so I've bought my units
from Jeff fully assembled and tested.  There are few things in the world I
feel as comfortable recommending as the XTB.  That's because Jeff is incredi
bly thorough and tests each unit he assembles and he stands behind his work
110%.  The only complaints I've heard about it come from BK (that's not
Burger King, BTW!) and he doesn't even OWN one.

I've tried to convince Jeff to build an RF coupled XTB-IIRF that doesn't
require installation at the panel, but he's declined because of all the
issues involved getting FCC certification.  Still, as a guy who put off
going into the breaker panel for ten years, I believe there's a very big
market for a coupler/repeater like the IIR that can be installed just by
plugging in two units on different electrical phases.  I estimate that there
may be as many as 1 million X-10 users with signal problems that either
can't or won't add a 240VAC outlet.  For renters, the budget minded,
electrophobes and others, modifying the circuit breaker panel just isn't in
the cards.

> I basically understand the plug-in SignalLinc products as well as the
> hardwired ones like these <http://www.smarthome.com/4823.html> and
> <http://www.smarthome.com/2406h.html>. So can you can help me understand
> Jeff's products?
>
> (a) The XTB unit seems less than ideal for my purposes as it lacks a
> bridge between both power supply sources. It also seems like my
> controller MUST be plugged into the XTB (but I am not sure about this)
> for it to boost its output. If true, I'd need one per controller and
> that seems inefficient for my needs (I have three now and likely more in
> the future).

That's correct.  I went that route in the beginning, buying six(!) XTB units
for all my "main" controllers.  At that time, the XTB repeater/coupler was
still in development so there wasn't much choice.  Since I was faced with
$1000's in switchover costs to leave X-10, it didn't seem like a exorbitant
expenditure.  I also thought it important to encourage Jeff to design more
X-10 gear and buying his products seemed the simplest way to do that.  When
the IIR's predecessor was born, I bought that unit and finally, the IIR.
The cost never bothered me much because I was certain they would always have
a high resale value and the XTB's saved me from having to scrap my whole
X-10 setup.

> (b) I am not sure but it seems like the XTB-IIR does NOT require that my
> controller be plugged into it directly (even though it appears to have a
> plug to support this). Is this correct?

Yes - quite correct.  The IIR "listens" to the powerline and repeats and
amplifies any X-10 powerline transmission it hears.  It also has a jack for
a controller like the TW523 (used by many OEM's to interface alarms, whole
house controllers, pool controllers and other devices to the powerline).
Since the best place to "inject" an X-10 signal is right near the breaker
box, I have my HomeVision whole house controller (sort of like a CM11A on
steroids - lots of steroids!) plugged into the digital outlet on the IIR.
The IIR also has an amplified AC outlet which means that plugging in a
mini-controller, CM11A or other X-10 transmitter into that outlet amplifies
the signal, just like the simpler XTB.   I have all my important
controllers, my whole house RF transmitter and lots of ControlLinc Maxi's
feeding into XTBs throughout the house.  I don't *really* need the
standalone XTB's anymore, but I believe that using them makes problems from
noise and signal suckers far less likely.

While I considered installing the IIR directly into the breaker box, I ended
up following Jeff's advice and mounted a new 240VAC outlet for the IIR right
near the circuit breaker panel.  Since I have one of the first
repeater/couplers in addition to the IIR, I thought that using plug and
outlet would enable me to swap out the unit or deactivate it easily for
testing more easily than a direct mount.  Also, when it's time to move, I
can unplug the IIR in seconds leaving only a 240VAC outlet behind.

--
Bobby G.