Re: Why cling to old X10?

[RickH <passport@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Sep 14, 4:42 pm, nob...@xxxxxxxxxxxx (Dave Houston) wrote:
> RickH <passp...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >Wow sounds like fraud more than hype, how do you know these things?
> >Why has my reliability been so good?  The documentation says that each
> >device is an RF repeater.  Also if it's not going RF why is it so much
> >faster than X10?  I have no filters in the house and no SignalLinc in
> >the basement at all, just on the 2nd floor.  On one branch circuit I'm
> >running about 15 or more devices, it was my understanding that Leviton
> >X10 recommends a max of 4 devices for a branch circuit before signal
> >absorption.  All this evidence led me to believe it was going RF, now
> >I'd be disappointed if it's not.  Are these bugs documented anywhere?
>
> I didn't say it's unreliable, I just said there's no RF mesh network.
>
> All of the Insteon details were thoroughly documented in a PDF white paper
> that was available onhttp://www.insteon.neteven back when it was first
> announced which was about a year before it began shipping. They've totally
> revamped that webpage since I last visited so the whitepapers are a bit
> harder to find. Here are links to two...
>
>      http://www.insteon.net/pdf/insteondetails.pdf
>      http://www.insteon.net/pdf/insteoncompared.pdf
>
> The second paper has a section titled "INSTEON Is a Dual Mesh Network" (p5)
> which includes the following paragraph...
>
> "All INSTEON devices that are plugged into the powerline communicate with
> each other using the INSTEON Powerline protocol. INSTEON devices with
> radios, whether they are plugged into the powerline or handheld, use the
> INSTEON RF (radio frequency) protocol to communicate with other INSTEON
> devices that have radios. Not all INSTEON devices are required to have
> radios."
>
> Which is highly misleading because, to date, only the SignaLincs (replaced
> by Access Points) and Remotes have "radios".
>
> Once they started shipping, I got a starter kit (on loan from a dealer) and
> posted a serial review here in comp.home.automation over about a 10 day
> period. There's a very brief synopsis on my webpage at...
>
>      http://davehouston.net/insteon.htm
>
> The review thread from July-August 2005 is here...
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.home.automation/browse_frm/thread...
>
> Each device repeats the powerline signal but not as "through the air" RF,
> only over the powerline. It's faster than X-10 because (best case) it only
> needs 5 half-cycles of the powerline to send a standard command (plus
> another half cycle to send it as "through the air RF" to the opposite phase
> while X-10 needs 44 half-cycles to send a command. The only RF device is the
> recently released remote (which requires the new access points).
>
> If you mean the SignaLinc bugs, see...
>
>      http://www.smarthome.com/2442p.html
>
> I received an email months ago from Smarthome telling me about it as well as
> the exchange offer but that may be because I'm a registered developer.
>
> Signal absorption is not a problem for Insteon since each device repeats the
> powerline signal. It is a problem for any X-10 devices in the system as the
> Insteon devices absorb X-10 but do not repeat X-10.


Thanks,

I did read those papers.

Now that I remember the wall units did not appear to have an RF unit
in them, now I see they didn't.  I will be adding the remote/access
eventually so that I'll have at least one RF device in the basement
some day.  Since all 55 devices are on the same basement subpanel, I'm
probably getting real good repeating over PL.  The whole basement is
about 50 feet by 60 feet rectangular with an 80 amp 12 breaker
subpanel (off main panel).  All wiring is in steel conduit (its code)
stranded (for easier pulling).  And the switches are clustered in
about 7 locations, but some fixtures use in-line units.  I'm very
happy with the performance.  There is a Triplite UPS on one of the
subpanel brannches, but does not seem to be an issue.  It would
probably behoove me to add the access point/remote sooner rather than
later just to get some RF action going with the SignalLinc (newer one)
upstairs.