Re: Wil I be able to use a Z-Wave controller

["Dan Wright" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

"Dave Houston" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:4710edc7.318515765@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> "Dan Wright" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>>Some thoughts:
>>- Every network must have a master controller.  Its a hand held in many
>>cases, though there are several serial ones out there that can be master
>>- Once setup, the lights will work with the master powered down, but
>>without
>>some sort of command device (handheld, computer, etc) how are you going to
>>initiate actions?
>
> Does this imply that you need to either carry a remote around or that you
> need a remote in each room?
>
> How much do remotes cost?

$40 to $110 and up, and they vary tremendously in functionality.  Low end
Intermatics are 6 button, others have LCD screens and can do timed events
and other higher end functions.

Any remote that is included into the network will work anywhere in the
network.  Not sure if there is a limit on slave controllers outside of the
size of your wallet.  I've done 10-12 slaves (including wall controllers)
without an issue.  Leviton also offers IR remotes to activate wall
controllers, an interesting touch and low cost.

>>- The routing algorithm in the master "knows" all devices and provides
>>some
>>level of routing optimization.  How "smart" the routing actually is seems
>>to
>>vary, and most vendors are a little cagy on it.  This also means that
>>unlike
>>X-10 you can not add and remove without updating all the controllers in
>>the
>>network.  You also must have devices join the network in their intended
>>physical location.
>
> How difficult is it to update all the controllers after changes?

There is an controller to controller update feature.  Takes a couple of
minutes (max) each

> What happens when a device "removes" itself through failure?

Via the master controller you can force a remove.  Then you have to go
update the slave controllers.  Until that is done, commands will be sent to
it until it responds or command timeout occurs.  On the wall controllers,
the green light flashes while commands are being sent.  It doesn't take long
for most of them.  If it continues to flash and then turns red, it means it
could not reach a module, and its time to get the master controller.  The
master controller can do a check and tell you which one is not responding.
A very useful tool.  Note this is for the Vizia units, I can not speak to
the other brands.

> How long does it take for the master to find a new route from A->B->C->D
> if
> one of the nodes in the routing is not responding? The marketing hype
> implies this occurs seamlessly, on-the-fly.

Not sure.  Have never had a scenario where I could isolate and test that
explicitly.  I have seen the auto rerouting though.

> Can a user fiddle with the master routing table to manually improve (or
> not)
> on its optimization?

As I understand it, Zigbee/Z-wave does not want the users having that kind
of access.  I have also heard rumors of at least one vendor going to offer
it anyway as part of a debugging tool fir installers.  Homeseer also offers
some software that offers some insight into the routes that only works with
their Z-controller.  I have not used it.

>>- I've done both better and worse than 25ft between modules.  However, I
>>am
>>yet to see a home where I could not get things to work properly.
>
> So my suggested "20-25ft for reliability" is reasonable?

Again, I have not done quantified testing.  During partial installs, I have
occasionally found what looked like a "you can't get there from here".
Finished the install, and everything worked.  In a couple of installations I
clearly have 30ft+ jumps that work fine, one of which is to an external
garage.

> How many nodes is typical in your installations? Do you have a rule of
> thumb
> for the number of nodes needed for small, medium & large residences?
> What's
> the typical cost for various sized residences?

Its easier to look at the number of controlled loads and cost accordingly.
New work is much easier, and you can reduce runs considerably with some
forethought.  The wall controllers make switch layout easy and minimizes the
number of wall boxes required.  Retrofits are more of a hassle, depending
where the load switch is.  Levition also makes non-RF Vizia which means
loads that you never want to have controlled can have matching switches
(i.e. garbage disposal).  By way of examples, a 2400 sqft ranch style house
with 4 bedrooms I retrofited has 38 controlled loads, 6 wall controllers and
5 handheld remotes.  A new 4500 sqft house I will be doing soon has 62
controlled loads and 12 wall controllers, and is starting with 6 handhelds.
YMMV.

>>At this point I am only installing ViziaRF. Levition has worked out the
>>kinks within their own product line quite well and will fix things when
>>issues are found without fingerpointing.  HAI has teamed with them as have
>>other HA vendors like Somfy to insure working solutions that do not
>>require
>>a lot of X-10 style hacking.
>
> What other brands, if any, have you tried?

Just about all of them.  They all work reasonably well, but for appearance
sake, its best to stick to one brand.  Leviton also has the best overall
product line breadth.

> Do you know why the Z-Wave thermostats have been discontinued?

No idea, but HAI has one and I have been told all of their new thermostat
line will support it when released.  Probably get more gouge at EHX.  Where
I live now there are Mastercool evaporative coolers are the norm, and there
are no externally controllable thermostats for them.  I have been pinging
HAI on creating one.

The West Coast EFX is coming up in a few weeks in Long Beach.  It will be
interesting to see what the vendors are pushing in terms of integrated
lighting control.