Re: N:Vision CFL's

[Marc_F_Hult <MFHult@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On 26 Mar 2007 20:34:11 GMT, ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote in message
<1338593@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

>In article <q9kf0317i3cdn5u055493d09lrmoth12jc@xxxxxxx>,
MFHult@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Marc_F_Hult) writes:
>
>| I could install hot and neutral from the same breaker but I'd have to run
>|all the way back to the entrance panel to do so in order to be safe and not
>| violate code (as I understand it).
>
>I'm not exactly sure what you mean here, but if you are talking about
>bringing a second cable from an existing circuit all the way back to the
>panel from which that circuit originates and connecting it to the same
>breaker, this is (IMHO) not only not required but a very bad idea (though
>possibly not prohibited).  It is easy for someone later to think that it
>is a separate circuit when moving things around.

Right. I think I used too few words to explain what I meant and too many to
avoid suggesting the wrong way ;-) Dan has helped me puzzle out some
electrical muddles before.

The example I was thinking of is a ceiling can in a third-floor room with
inaccessible space above with a wall switch that is accessible from the
adjacent attic.

I can:

1) Test continuity of both 2x14 w/grnd from the switch to the ceiling can and
(important but easy to forget) isolation of both conductors from neutral,
ground and hot of either phase,
2) Rewire the 2x14AWG that goes to the switch across both leads of the lamp
holder.
3) 'Abandoned in place' the hot and neutral in the can with wire nuts. (I
also label the wires indicating that this is what I've done.)
4) Bring new power to the switch.
5) Wire in switch.

In my case, I have little faith in the existing wiring so I would run back to
the 2nd flr load center that is accessible through the attic rather than
using any existing wires. I've replaced a substantial portion (half?) of the
existing wiring bit by bit in this way. The new second-floor load center is
where the commercial 2nd Flr dimmer cabinet like the one in the basement is
supposed to go, so in theory I could hard-wire the light by not using any AC
wall dimmer/switch at all and running back to the relay panel. That leaves
with also having to run the low-voltage to a new box for the local control
element.

To continue with what Dan was saying, there are at least two rewiring schemes
that should not be used.

1) Running a new hot and neutral AC from an arbitrary source to the wall
switch and using a mechanical relay-based X10/INSTEON. This puts two
different circuits into the same box.

2) Running a new wire from the existing breaker that controls the load  all
the way back to the switch. This would electrically allow using a 3-wire PLC
switch or dimmer, but would be dangerous if changes anywhere along the way at
a later time connected either wire up to a different breaker. The ambiguity
comes in because ABIK, the code apparently doesn't explicitly prohibit this
but might not pass inspection anyway and is not sound practice.

>| Some locations still have X10 WS467s that I never pulled. I'll check to
>|see if the n:vision 60-watts work there. If I use them in on-off mode
>| (which was all the control I had locally anyway) I may be satisfied with
>| reliability and performance.
>
>I would be interested in the results.  I'm particularly interested in
>a solution that works outside; I don't really care how long it takes
>to come up to full brightness.

As I previously posted, I tested the lamps to 0F. They are rated to -20 F

I have a room with two cans and two sconces controlled by a WS467 (same room
as described above). Replacing three of the four incandescents with 60-watt
n:nision CFLs works like a charm except that the fluorescents glow _very_
slightly even when off. Replacing all four causes the WS467 to buzz like a
like an electric hair-clipper. Completely unusable mode (for me). Tonight I
can check to see whether a debuzzing coil (= choke, = inductor) would solve
the problem.

>| Do you have any recommendations for moderately priced 2-wire wall
>| switches/dimmers with better tactile response than the WS467?
>
>One generation of the WS467 (maybe even the current one) uses an
>actual switch component on the PC board rather than the tacky
>contacts.  Unfortunately, while the switch does have some tactile
>response, it seems to be a very low-quality part that fails nearly
>as fast as the previous generation for contact strips.  (Some day
>I want to find out why the even older generation of contact strips
>worked so much better.  I still have switches from the 80's that
>are fine.)  Anyway, since X10 has done most of the mechanical work
>it might be possible to find a better switch that is a drop-in
>replacement.

Good idea. But the need to keep WS467s air-gap switch is still a nuisance. My
mom once insisted that a light bulb was burned out. She was pushing the air
gap switch back and forth, working mostly by feel rather than looking at what
she was doing ...

..Marc
Marc_F_Hult
www.ECOntrol.org