Re: RFID Flap Silences Security Researchers

["Robert L Bass" <no-sales-spam@bassburglaralarms>]

> The "Pay Pass" has been around for a
> while - now it's down to credit card size.
> It doesn't even have to be swiped
> through a reader, just passed near it.
> The problem with these sorts of systems
> is that it's probably pretty easy for some
> dweeb to put a second reader, hidden
> nearby, that also scans the card and
> captures the information.

Perhaps, but if it's so easy to do, why is it
we haven't heard of anyone doing it?  Bear
in mind that the 2nd reader would need to
be secreted within inches of the real one.
I'm not familiar with Pay Pass so I can't
say what kind of range it has.  However,
any hidden reader would also need a
source of power and a device to collect
stolen data.  It's likely not as easy as one
might think.

> There would be little chance of snatching
> hundreds of RFID codes from passers-by
> out of thin air with known technologies,
> AFAIK.  But I also know hackers are
> ingenious - as evidenced by hardware like
> cantennas - and it may be quite possible
> to build a longer-than-normal range device
> that would allow you to set up a covert
> reader near a "funnel point" like a subway
> turnstile where 1,000's of people pass with
> the wallets and pocketbooks at very much
> the same height and distance.

OK, let's suppose someone was able to
hide such a device inside the 42nd Street
station.  He collects data from thousands of
RFID devices as people pass by.  Now what?
He has no idea who they are or what facility
their card accesses.

The reality is that there are far eaier, orders
of magnitude simpler ways to break in.  It's
highly unlikely anyone will set up a code
grabbing system in a subway station.  Based
in many years' experience in the security
industry, I believe it's also unlikely most
locations where people might rightfully use
an RFID card are susceptible to installing
a hidden device to steal data from the cards.

> You might not even need s super reader
> if you could locate your hijacking reader
> quite near a legitimate one...

Perhaps, but that would be pretty noticeable.
If I came home to use my RFID card to open
the fron door I'd probably want to know why
there's a new black box mounted next to the
real one.  In a workplace environment someone
would notice right away if someone started
installing a strange device next to the door.

> I can also easily see a hacker designing a
> very small, easy to conceal device that
> would record every RFID that was used in
> the reader that had been tapped...

The problem is twofold.  If the device is to
read data as it is entered, it has to be wired
in place and remain there for all to see.  On
the other hand, if it is to grab data all at once
it must be connected to the access control
panel.  The readers don't store data.

> This is a well-known criminal technique...

Hmm.  I never heard of anyone doing it.

> I read sometime back that some gang of
> criminals had figured out how to add a
> vampire tap to a plain old POTS credit card
> authorization machine that provided them
> with the card data from every card that
> was swiped through the reader in the
> restaurants they targeted.

If that is the story I think it is, they just
tapped and recorded the phone lines.

> Hackers are ingenious.  I remember people
> making 1,000's of long distance phone calls
> for free way back when with the:

Totally unrelated.

> ...The most popular item in the store has
> been a copper bracelet with a red light that
> blinks when it is near an RFID scanner...

And that would help someone hack into an
RFID?

> --- snip a bunch of unrelated stuff ---

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

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