Re: Fluorescent Bulbs Are Known to Zap Domestic Tranquillity; Energy-Savers a Turnoff for Wives

[Marc_F_Hult <MFHult@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 11:43:33 GMT, nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx (Dave Houston) wrote
in message  <46624d5a.763270875@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

>"These factors tend to be left out of the discussion." because a market
>based economy has no way to incorporate these externalities into the market
>price.

ROTFL  Dave's nonsense is at least 20 years behind the reality of what the
US market-based economy can and _has_ dealt with in incorporating
externalities.

One need look no further than yet another pollutant from coal-fired power
plants, namely sulfur, and  the pollutant trading market that was developed
to help curb pollution from it (For example.)

And the cost of removing the sulfur that is not 'traded off' is in fact also
borne by the consumer and some of those costs are reabsorbed by innovative
solutions to the waste stream.

In fact, the  largest single-line sheet rock (plasterboard) plant the US, by
the largest construction material company in the US,  is a few miles from
Dave's house and uses _exclusively_ synthetic gypsum made from the sulfur
scrubbed from the stacks of power plants that burn coal from Kentucky and
adjacent states where Dave lives. I've been given a technical tour of the
plant and it is very impressive. Pollution abatement paid for in part by
folks buying sheet rock. (Who'da thunk...)

>Great fortunes have been made in the extractive industries because,
>in part, the demand for their product is higher than it would be if the
>extractors had to pay the full social costs of extraction.
>
>However, as long as coal is plentiful (and cheap) it _will_ be used and
>anyone who thinks otherwise is hopelessly naive.

Yet another Strawman Alert. No one I know or have heard of makes any such
claim.

>If it becomes economical to
>capture the CO2, convert it to CO and use it as a chemical feedstock to
>make plastics, gasoline, etc., West Virginia and eastern Kentucky will soon
>be flatlands just like the western forests disappeared to clear cutting.
>The best one can hope for is to ameliorate the effects and maybe reducing
>the CO2 emissions will save the new flatlands from inundation or, at least,
>delay the flood.

Biblical thinking on these matters in endemic to Dave's neighborhood.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/

>
>John Prine wrote "Paradise" about 35 years ago (at about the time CFLs were
>introduced*) and environmental damage in W. VA and eastern KY predate
>mountain top removal. Little has changed (other than the Peabody coal train
>moving on to other flatland coal fields in Ohio, Illinois, Wyoming, etc.
>and our use of coal accelerating - more than half our electricity is
>coal-based and that percentage is increasing) despite all the wailing and
>gnashing of teeth by "environmentalists".

ROTFL. The percentage is decreasing in part because other goals are being
partially met. For example, expansion of nuclear has been delayed until a
satisfactory manner of waste disposal/storage is available.

85% of dams in US will be near the end of their operational lives by 2020
(EOS, Transactions of the American Geophysical Union, 28 January 2003).
Removal programs for small and medium sized dams is in full swing. Hence a
reduction in hydropower capacity.

Dave talks like the most simplistic of the enviros yet doesn't see himself
in the mirror -- HE's doing the one gnashing and wailing ;-)

>Anyway, I think you will find that it was a federal judge with a lifetime
>appointment and no need for campaign funds who ruled the EPA and Corps of
>Engineers have no authority to block mountain top removal.

And I think you will find that Dave is once again spreading misinformation
about something that he either wants to obfuscate, is entirely ignorant
about, or both.

As the Chairman of the Issues and Policy Committee of one of the
organization that filed suit in federal court against the US Army Corps of
Engineers over mountaintop removal,  I am thrilled to point y'all to yet
another resounding victory in a string of victories in the March 23rd
decision by US District Judge Robert C. Chambers


http://www.wvsd.uscourts.gov/district/opinions/pdf/Order%20rescind%20permit.pdf

"Accordingly, for the foregoing reasons, the Court ENTERS judgment in favor
of Plaintiffs", writes the Judge.

I gave an invited talk on specifically on mountaintop removal last month to
about 80 faculty and staff members at Dave's local university,  so the topic
is fresh in my mind ...

>So far, higher gasoline prices have made no dent in the number of miles
>driven by Americans. It remains to be seen whether the higher food prices
>caused by the idiotic subsidies for corn-derived ethanol will wake anyone.
>
>*mentioning CFLs keeps this HA related - ;)

Mentioning ways to use HA to reduce energy use in any and all ways makes
this on-topic for comp.home.automation.

Where are the strawmen arguments agin turning off the lights when not used?
Or using lower wattage lamps? Or programmable thermostats? Or attic fans? or
... Why aren't they pointing out that increasing insulation in homes (by its
lonesome) won't solve 'the problem'?

.... Marc
Marc_F_Hult
www.ECOntrol.org