Re: d-day

["Jeff Volp" <JeffVolp@xxxxxxx>]

My own observations parallel Marc's input.

Early CFLs all had large bases.  I disassembled a couple over the years, and
they had a rectifier feeding a large electrolytic capacitor directly at the
AC power input.  Some of those early CFLs attenuated X10 signals, but I
never saw them radiate noise in the X10 transmission window, which extends
for 1mS after each zero crossing.  The early Philips "Earthlights" were
totally compatible with X10 transmissions.  Unfortunately, ours are finally
wearing out after about a decade of service.

Many have reported problems with newer CFLs causing problems for X10
transmission.  I wrote a report on several that radiate noise in the X10
frequency band inside the X10 transmission window.  Those have much smaller
bases.  While I have not yet disassembled one, it seems pretty obvious from
the radiated noise that the switching converter is running over the entire
waveform.  That also allows them to eliminate the large high-voltage
electrolytic that dictated the size of the base.

To jam the circuitry into smaller and smaller bases, it is impossible to
include the large high-voltage electrolytic capacitors that result in the
low power factor numbers.  The downside is that some of these newer units
with high-frequency switching supplies radiate that switching noise back
onto the powerline.

Jeff

"Marc_F_Hult" <MFHult@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:4nfqm3hjftifcomir2bu0ch0g36ieh9rqh@xxxxxxxxxx
> On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 12:16:38 GMT, nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx (Dave Houston) wrote
> in message  <476cfc1d.339835187@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
>
>>Another factor is "power factor". I may have missed it but don't recall
>>seeing anything that mandates a minimum PF for CFLs. If uncorrected, most
>>have PF around 60% which means the utility has to supply 1.67x as much
>>current as is actually used by the light. This means the green benefits
>>are less than face value. The higher currents (and infrastructure) do
>>constitute a real cost to the utility. So while a CFL will use less
>>current, it's not as much of a reduction as is usually claimed.
>
>
> More FUD.  Dave makes up the 60% figure based on the very oldest and very
> worst specifications he can Google up.  This is like projecting the
> capabilities of current and future personal computers based on the
> characteristics of a 1983 IBM-PC.
>
> As I pointed out nine months ago in this newsgroup in
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.home.automation/browse_thread/thread/
> e884c965201a543/52615a29efcdcc27?lnk=st&q=comp.home.automation+Marc_F_Hult+
> cfl+powe+factor#52615a29efcdcc27
>
> when Dave posted similar misinformation about the power factor of CFL's,
> the n:Vision CFL I reviewed has a _measured_ power factor of 0.94 to 0.97
> -- not 0.60 as Dave now claims.
>
> This is not an exotic or unusual CFL. I bought this inexpensive n:vision
> CFL at the Home Depot that is a mile from Dave's apartment and measured
> its
> power factor using a Kill-A-Watt meter of the same model that Dave has
> written that he also owns and subsequently recommended for this purpose in
> this newsgroup.
>
> And as I previously pointed out in
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.home.automation/browse_thread/thread/
> e884c965201a543/52615a29efcdcc27?lnk=st&q=comp.home.automation++Products+
> (TCP)+SpringLamp+I+introduced++earlier+the++#52615a29efcdcc27
>
> "There are of course, higher priced CFLs with even better
> specifications and performance -- They just haven't reached
> the price point of the n:vision  CFLs.  .. For example, of the
> 20 watt (75-watt equivalent)  2700K Technical Consumer  Products
> (TCP) SpringLamp I introduced  earlier the  N:Vision CFL's
>  discussion has a rated  power factor of " >.90 "
>
> And the very technical paper that Dave Houston introduces to use as the
> springboard for his misinformation in the thread cited above
>
>  http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/an/4042.pdf
>
> demonstrates that technical solutions to the erstwhile 'problem' of power
> factor are well known, public ally available, and have in fact been
> implemented my several manufacturers -- including a model whose actual
> performance Dave could trivially verify if he actually wanted to be
> constructive and accurate.
>
> ... Marc
> Marc_F_Hult
> www.ECOntrol.org