Re: Water heater eating X-10 signal

["Mr. Land" <graftonfot@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Apr 27, 10:31 am, "Robert Green" <ROBERT_GREEN1...@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> "Mr. Land" <grafton...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>
> <stuff snipped>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > My front yard lights are controlled by a WS467 wall switch.  Were you
> > > > suggesting connecting the ESM1 at the site of the wall switch?
>
> > > Do you know if there are any outlets on that run?  I would try to get
> the
> > > meter as close to the actual problem load (as opposed to the problem
> source)
> > > as possible.  My guess is that somehow, the water heater wiring is
> shunting
> > > the X-10 signal to ground somewhere.  It sounds like whenever that
> circuit
> > > is active, whether drawing large amounts of power or not, it reliably
> > > "steps" on your porch light signal.
>
> > > What brand/model of water heater is this?  Maybe the documentation can
> shed
> > > some light on what's happening.
>
> > > --
> > > Bobby G.
>
> > It's a GE 50 gallon, sold at Home Depot.
>
> > I like your idea - connecting the ESM1 at the WS467 - that's my next
> > step.
>
> It's a little late in the game to ask this, but what sort of bulb is in your
> porchlight?  Incandescent?  Compact fluorescent?
>
> I recall your saying that the only connections from the water heater to the
> circuit panel are both "hot" and no neutral.  Is there any other connection
> to the panel from the water heater?  Some of the electric water heaters I've
> seen connect the heating elements to high amperage and high voltage
> (200+VAC) breakers and the control circuitry to a lower voltage, lower
> amperage breaker.  I assume there's a ground connection to the water heater,
> too.  Is it in good shape?
>
> From what I've read, you've confirmed that when you switch the water heater
> breaker(breakers?) OFF, you can remotely control the porchlight, but when
> it's ON, you can't.  While this looks like a signed and sealed indictment
> against the water heater, it may just be that your light switch was at the
> marginal end of the performance spectrum and thus nearly ANY change in the
> wiring near that circuit is enough to bleed off what little signal was
> getting to the porch light switch.  That's why I am so interested in the
> signal level right at the light switch, particularly the numbers you get
> when the heater breakers are off, versus on.
>
> --
> Bobby G.


All of our front lights are garden-variety outdoor house lamps (metal
frames with various glass panel arrangements, with arrays of 2 or 3
40W "teardrop" shaped incandescent lamps).  We have one pair with each
mounted on either side of our front door, one pair with each on either
side of our garage doors, and a single pole lamp at the end of our
driveway near the street.  Each pair is controlled by a single WS467,
as is the pole lamp.  Currently, these are set to X-10 C4, C5 and C6
addresses, although I've tried others out of curiosity and that hasn't
helped.  They all behave identically: they either all work, or none of
them work.

The wire to the water heater is 10/2 WG, so there are the two "hot"
wires and a ground - no neutral wire.  Yes, the ground connection to
the water heater is sound.  There are no lower-voltage feeds, control
or otherwise, to the heater.

Here's more troubleshooting info:

Through trial and error I identified the breaker which feeds the
lights in question.  I re-ran my looping test script and used the ESM1
to measure the signal at the screw connection to that breaker.  I saw
a the 5-bar signal level there, along with the green X-10 light on the
ESM1.  Next I removed one of the troublesome WS467's (the pole lamp)
from the wall near the front door.  I disconnected it and tested from
ground to each wire there at the box - on the line side wire I saw the
same "healthy" 5 bar signal level there.  Really confused at this
point, I rewired the WS467 into the circuit, and tested again - I
still saw the 5 bar signal level!  Yet the WS467 does not respond to
it.

Could this be some sort of minor garbling and/or ringing that the ESM1
can handle well enough to show a green X-10 indicator, yet be enough
to foul up the WS467's?  Could two phase wires in the 70-odd feet of
10/2 feeding the heater be causing some sort of weird ringing?


I'm running out of ideas, thanks to you all for continuing to try to
assist.