Re: HA Primer - Pos and cons of X-10, Z-wave, Insteon, UPB

["echo" <shaw@xxxxxxx>]

So lets all beat a dead horse. You can't make a silk purse out of a sows
ear. X-10 has had its day and it is time for a more robust technology to
fill the need and fix the issues I mentioned.  Until we get more robust user
friendly devices out there HA will be for the geeks.  I would never
recommend X-10 for a serious installation because of the 7 problems.  Just
think how users respond to Windows vs DOS and how Google has changed our
lives.  No way will home automation come of age until we abandon this old
crap. Using signal bridges and having to add filters to TVs and not using
power bars with filters that eat x-10.  Need I go on.  I used to sell this
stuff.  There is nothing modern about X-10 and justifying its continued
sales is like hanging on to DOS.   Oh ya..I like DOS and have one PC running
24/7 on DOS 6  oddly enough it runs an ECS based X-10 system.  Very powerful
in its day, 10+ years ago.

As for two-way, sorry X-10 is not.  The newer modules can respond because of
modern PICs and programming but the protocol underlying is the problem. In a
proper communication system the network protocol must handle the error
correction and acknowledgments not the application (module).  Having a
module respond is a Band-Aid that does not work.  It clutters up the
powerline with even more X-10 commands so that more collisions occur and
even more commands get lost making the system less reliable.  Answerback
modules must be used carefully allowing a time for response. Again, not too
friendly.

The TCP/IP would be great if it could be implemented over powerlines.  But
an even more robust protocol would be nice where any module plugged into the
homes power system could be auto-detected and have a property sheet
instantly available to the control software.

I have a feeling a hybrid system of some kind may be good since powerline
commands can't be heard by low voltage DC devices. These could easily use a
wireless protocol.

As I mentioned X-10 has been discussed.  Lets talk about something new like
the way Insteon works or Zwave, Zigbee, or Home PNP



"Dave Houston" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:462d2bdd.1090050312@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote:
>
> >In article <z1YWh.116736$DE1.58348@pd7urf2no>, shaw@xxxxxxx (echo)
writes:
> >
> >| X-10s answer was the "2-way module".  They are not really 2-way
> >| since they can't acknowledge a command directly but they can be polled.
> >
> >Actually, they can be configured to acknowledge a command (or any state
> >change).  I've never needed this feature because (a) I don't have the
> >reliability problems you are worried about and (b) my use for 2-way
> >functionality is generally to see in what state some other person/process
> >has left the device--something that is usually best done at the moment I
> >want the information.  You might want to take a look at X10's extended
> >command set; it is quite complete.
>
> And, most of the Smarthome designed X10-compatible modules report changes
> and respond to Status Request with the current preset dim level, even
> transmitting an OFF should a bulb burn out.