Re: X-10 Mister House Motion sensor problems

[Marc F Hult <MFHult@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:48:42 -0400, "Robert Green"
<ROBERT_GREEN1963@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
<BM2dnQrdKs0kBBTZnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@xxxxxxx>:

>"Marc F Hult" <MFHult@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message >
><ROBERT_GREEN1963@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>

>> This is/was also part of the Elk MM443-Ocelot comparison that folks
>> with no hands-on experience could never grok. The physical installation
>>is critical -- not jist the smarts.
>
>What, exactly, is so wrong about the Ocelot/ADI method of HA?  I've seen
>top-notch Ocelot installations (at least photos of them) and they seem no
>way inferior to the Elk way of doing things.  In fact, their
internetworking
>capabilities make them superior for the kind of HA work I want to do.  You
>just have to love C-Max and ladder logic and to able to forget everything
>you know about structured programming.  Well, that's hyperbole again, but
by
>now the whole world know's I am very hyperbolic.
>
>If I were to give bad marks to the Ocelot/ADI entry, it wouldn't be
>something I could easily correct at "enclosures'R'Us.com" it would be the
>nastiness of programming the bugger.  I'm not sure what a pure, hardware
>independent HA programming language should look like, but C-Max is not it.
>I'll know it when I see it.  HomeSeer and CharmedQuark each come close on a
>number of fronts, but from different directions.

Bobby,

Let me try it again: "The physical installation is critical -- not jist the
smarts".

Elk makes nifty white, optionally paintable boxes that are the approximate
size and shape of smoke detectors into which they put things like MM443 HA
controllers, Caddx security panels, annunciators, speakers etc.

So if you need one to four analog inputs or outputs/relays somewhere, you
can pop a hole through the wall board (say, on the ceiling) run CAT5 to a
MM443 (RS-485 + 12vdc + four 'spare' conductors) and wire up the sensors if
they are external. You are done.

Nothing shows except a smoke-detector-like box on the ceiling. The wires are
hidden by the box and the box is very unobtrusive.  Good example is drape
control where a MM443 can be taught to locally sense drape position, relays
control motots, sense local control switch/potentiometer, light levels,
clock calendar, local and remote temperature and can run autonomously (or
communicating with other MM443s or HA PC's on the 485 bus) forever.

Now imagine that you want a few outputs and you are using an Ocelot. Fer
starters you have two boxes with an interconnecting cable (ocelot + ADI
relay gizmo) And you have cables entering each ADICON box from the outside
(not underneath and hidden). And the Ocelot case is anything but
unobtrusive. You can't just screw it to the living room ceiling near the
drapes. You need an enclosure. A fairly big enclosure to hold the two boxes
and external wiring. A 12x12 junction box is a good size. But now you have
to cut a hole in the drywall and flush mount it because a j-box sticking out
from  the ceiling is typically not OK. And  neither is a j-box cover. So you
need to locate or build an unobtrusive cover.

If you are a professional installer competing on price, or a busy homeowner
that would rather be out playing golf, the physical installation differences
difference may be the deciding factor. If you are a DIY type, the time, $,
effort, plaster mess (and resulting flak from SO) may be worth it.

My point is _not_ to make any particular recommendation here, but to lay out
differences and options -- especially experiences based on my actual
experience, rather than jist hippopotamusly.

My experiences and need have been much messier and complicated than just
cutting through wallboard. The exterior and most interior walls in my house
are solid brick (in US) or stone and mortar (in Spain) with plaster
skim-coat. Even the shortest wire run can mean lotsa hammer and chisel
masonry work. Different strokes fer different folks.

... Marc
Marc_F_Hult
www.ECONtrol.org