Re: discussion groups?

["Robert Green" <ROBERT_GREEN1963@xxxxxxxxx>]

"Marc F Hult" <MFHult@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:n8p98251p87n7eq4c6gjgos1iqpmtp4de0@xxxxxxxxxx
> On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 06:07:31 GMT, "Paul Fielding" <paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote in message  <DSPgg.241763$WI1.153342@pd7tw2no>:
>
> >I've been out of the game for some time and upon my return see that the
> >traffic here seems to have reduced *substantially*.  Is there a new &
> >improved place that most of the general HA discussion has moved to?
> >
> >Paul
> >
>
> This group was dominated for years by discussion of X-10 problems. Now
that
> most of X-10's deficiencies are well documented and available through
> Google, that traffic (or at least interest in responding to those
questions)
> has dropped.

That's due to a number of factors.  Dispersal comes to mind as the foremost.
X-10.com hosts discussion groups.  Most X-10 newbies get their answers
there.  That didn't exist when this newsgroup saw its heyday.  X-10 newbies
often got the "if you use X-10 your family will die" treatment by the anti
X-10 contingency here.  People get tired of arguing against that sort of
stuff.

It happens in every newsgroup, though.  People ask a question and instead of
being offered help, or polite silence, they're told what a dumb choice they
made.  What a way to win friends and influence people.  So the newsgroups
have become sort of a bombed out Beirut of the '80's.  Life goes on -
barely.

> With the advent of other accessibly-priced lighting protocols, traffic for
> those protocols has migrated to their respective fora -- as it should.

Yes and no answer to "as it should."  People in those fora should visit more
often than they do because it's an opportunity to expose the HA community in
general, which I believe CHA represents, to specific new technologies.

> Programming and interface issues have also moved to the respective
hardware
> (Omni, Elk, Adicon etc) and software (Homeseer, Charmed Quark, Mr House
> etc.) discussion areas.

It's probably slowed their overall growth as a result.  It's easy to see
why, though.  I've seen almost every vendor who's ever come here get
vilified in a manner befitting Adolph Hitler.  So they've had to set up
their own fora to avoid public extortion spectacles and worse.   Here's
where the war mentality settles in deeper as people break off into separate
camps.  "It's them or us!" becomes the nature of interactions between them.

> Between industrial automation (the realm of PLC's, SCADA,
> BACnet and so on) and proprietary high-end home automation
> and home theatre (Crestron, AMX etc) with custom programming,
> there's not much that can't be done that most folks *want* to do.
> Jist a matter of $ and time.

Eventually there will be unification and all devices will be able to speak
to and interact with other devices, be they TV, toaster or telephone.
That's what I think all CHA'ers strive for.  Simple and reliable remote
control of everything that's remotely controllable.

> Some folks will of course continue to pontificate about things they have
> never actually used or touched -- Plus ça change, ...

And some folks will never bury their respective hatchets. That's just
Usenet, which is really an incredible social experiment on an unprecedented
scale.  We're all a part of something that will likely be preserved for a
long, long time.   We all should be on our best behavior but we never are.

As you note, it's always a good idea to ask proper questions such as "did
you really use one?" and "do you work for the company you're touting?" among
others when seeking advice.

> Interest in homebrew hardware has with a exceptions continued its long
> decline parallel to that of DIY electronics and most traditional home act
> ivies (woodworking, sewing, music-making). There will always be a few
folks
> prone to try to build a gizmo from copper pennies and beach sand, but we
are
> a dying generation.

There was a reason for the guild system.  So much of one that I think it
will return in some shape or form.  Every kid I know is taught that plumbing
is dirty menial work and that you should strive to be a doctor, lawyer or
astronaut.  Is it any wonder we've got problems with finding skilled
"builders?"

> What this newsgroup *could* be good at is discussion of new directions and
> strategies. But much of the forward-looking, innovative discussion in
> newsgroups began moving away 'bout the time most government industry and
> academics left in the early 1990's.

That's telling 'em -- what?  That when the level of hostility ratcheted up
all the nice, smart people left?  That's my take on it, anyway.  Unmoderated
newsgroups allow savages to prevail.  If someone can play harder, dirtier
and longer and shout louder than anyone else, in an unmoderated world
there's nothing much people can do except ignore them.  History has shown
that's almost impossible for *everyone* in a group to do, let alone the
victim of the attack.

My take on the whole thing is that if *everyone* strives to tone down the
rhetoric, perhaps some of the really smart people who used to post daily
might offer their thoughts on the future.  I know many of them are still
reading because every now and then they'll make a comment.

> What I lament is any semblance of innovation in the arena of
> self-directed/adaptive/smart/heuristic/AI-based/expert HA systems. Most
> everything one sees here is binary (event-driven) logic drifting towards
> push-button control of the push-buttons on AV doodads. Actual
environmental
> measurement and monitoring in current conventional HA is
> simplistic/primitive and responses mechanistic/deterministic.

That will change.  We've already seen interest in predicting and integrating
weather with home automation.  Dr. Cheung's got some fascinating stuff at:

http://www.edcheung.com/automa/w_st.htm

As soon as you see the picture you know what an innovative guy he is.

His system tracks 8 parameters: wind speed, wind direction, rain fall,
outside temp, outside humidity, inside temp, inside humidity, and barometric
pressure. He then derives three additional parameters, which are : wind gust
(max winds over a period of time), the outside dew point, and the rain fall
rate.

He's built his own weather nodes with LCD displays that use a fiber optic
connection to the sensor pod on the roof.  I'm going to try adopting this
technology to my own house because up until now I was not keen on mounting
wires and sensors on the roof because of lightning concerns.  His anemometer
and wind vane are made from commonly available items such as Schedule 40 PVC
tubing.

What I like most is that he follows up on his own work.  He noted that the
rain fall sensor's sensitivity dropped a little.  But the sensor was so high
up, it presented a maintenance problem.  When he eventually did recover the
sensor pod dirt had accumulated and dried onto the rain sensing spoon. The
added weight stopped it from tipping.  He fixed the problem and detailed the
steps it took.   Finally, he made a small vent window in the side of the
house so he could reach the sensor pod climbing on the trusses of the roof.
(I am stealing THIS idea Dr. C!!)  His followup notes are worth their weight
in gold for anyone contemplating a similar installation.

> There's much more to be done.

Then go out and do it!! :-)

> My list of references of actual innovative 'intelligent'
> homes  (*not* =  houses with lotsa X-10 and video cameras) is outdated.

Update it! :-)

> Fresh URL's anyone ? Anything of actually of interest on the HA web ring?
> Academic efforts? Enviro experiments that worked?

Dunno, but anyone with an interest in HA should check out Dr. Cheung's
site - even if they have visited before, they'll see how HA technology
actually evolves.

--
Bobby G.