Re: Mini-ITX PC's a the future of HA

["Robert Green" <ROBERT_GREEN1963@xxxxxxxxx>]

"Dean Roddey" <droddey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

> "Robert Green" <ROBERT_GREEN1963@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> > As for it being a necessity, isn't that a little like the cart pulling
the
> > dog?  Isn't that an admission that Windows can't really multitask well .
. .

<stuff snipped>

> No, I don't see it that way. It's nothing to do with multi-tasking really.
> It's that most people who end up with any automation in their homes are
> going to get it profesionally installed. The DIY market is very small, so
> they don't drive this. If you are putting an automation system into
> someone's home, and you are the one who has to deal with problems, you are
> going to be conservative, no matter what OS it is running, and not let the
> user directly use this machine for day to day purposes. It's just the
safest
> thing to do. And this machine really does want to be a server, not a
client,
> which means it won't be a small VIA machine, it'll have ot be something
with
> more ooph.

I'm still not sure that in the future home there will be only one machine
serving all three functions:  HA, security (HA/S) and entertainment.  As I
said previously, since the horsepower requirements are so different between
HA/S and entertainment uses, it makes lots of sense for me, at least, to
split those areas.  I can't see how you could ever leave a media server
"alone enough" to keep it protected.  You're always adding new media and if
you're running "street legal" you need constant updates to various players
and intermediate software.

> > I'm sorry but I see this as an admission of MS's failure.  To me it
says:
> > "Windows is pretty damn touchy when it comes to multitasking." This is
> > what
> > I was alluding to earlier when I talked about it crashing often, and no
> > one
> > caring enough to complain to MS or to stop buying the product.
>
> No, it can multi-task extremely well. You keep ignoring that the problem
is
> the HUMAN, not the machine.

I'm sorry, but I don't buy into the "dumb human" argument very deeply.  MS
has created tons of access "holes" into its computer programs that require
end users to become "hole experts" and very familiar with ways to stop data
from leaking out of or into their PC's.   Mac users don't have to frenzy
about what patches to add and what add-on software to buy but PC users do.
The problem is simply that Windows is not designed for robust multitasking.
When you set it up as an appliance, it means you can't really use it for
anything else.  You can't even risk installing MS blessed and approved
programs because any one of them is likely to screw things up.

> If you let completely non-technical end users poke around in
> any machine and modify themselves and install anyo old thing
> the they run across on the internet, and they will, then nothing is
> going to stay stable.

I've seen plenty of highly technical people do very little with a server
(adding a new printer or a CD burner) that completely bollixed up Windows.
I recall distinctly having to rebuild a server because Adaptec's CD creator
hosed the ASPI drivers.  I challenge you to find the Windows user out there
that *hasn't* inadvertently loaded a "killer" program that blew out
something on their machine, whether it was another app or the whole damn
thing went to the BSOD.  It's not just Joe Dumbo user loading every toolbar
he sees on the net that brings down Windows multitasking.

> My previous system (the VIA one) was running XP and stayed up for over a
> year until I took it down to replace it. It had not glitched in the
> slighted, leaked any memory or anything else of that nature. This is
because
> it was treated as an appliance, as an automation system should be.

Maybe they've finally gotten things right.  I'll likely never know because I
won't buy into "ET phone home" software except for something that comes
bundled on a laptop where I can't avoid it for a number of reasons.

> > I'm sorry that I haven't kept up with recent Windows releases.  I own,
but
> > don't use, XP because an OS that will stop working without "phoning
home"
> > just because you replace a NIC can't possibly be considered "robust" in
> > any
> > sense of the word.  I've been reading through their site at:
>
> I think that you are overstating the situation to make it sound as bad as
> possible. It may ask to phone home if you change multiple aspects of the
> machine at once. That can only happen if you've already taken the machine
> down in order to make hardware changes. A quick and painless call will fix
> it if it happens. In a profesionally installed system, this will be
handled
> by the installer.

Got an XP machine with a NIC?  Change it out an tell me if your XP machine's
happy with it.  Mine wanted to phone home, as did a friend's.  That's when I
dumped it.  As for quick and painless calls I'm not trusting my computing
environment on MS's future willingness to take calls.  Nor do I like having
to punch in 25 character codes just because I like to tinker with machines.
MS didn't force activation on their corporate clients.  It's just another
example of their contempt for the home user.

> > Holy Double Moses!  You want to use your combination HA/security system
to
> > watch movies?
> >
> > Really?  (-;
> >
> > Then we're very disconnected on same basic level, Dean.  To me that's
just
> > asking for trouble.  The HA and security need very little user
interaction
> > once they're up.
>
> No, I don't watch movies on it. Movies are in a changer controlled by the
> box. I do listen to music off of it, which is a very light weigth
operation
> for a modern machine, and I partly do it because I'm using mine mostly as
a
> home theater controller, not as a whole home automation system (because I
> don't have a home, just a small apartment.)

Where's our resident zookeeper?  Surely you *can't* be allowed to design
HOME automation software if you don't HAVE one!!??  (Sorry, just kidding - I
couldn't resist after some of the replies I've read.)

Seriously, though, I hope you see why I don't want to mingle the two, at
least in my larger installation.  Right now, AV comes from the media room
and it's piped via RG6 to where it's viewed.  Each "viewstation" can also
feed the rest of the house, if required.  When I finally settle on a motion
detection system I like, whatever program's playing will follow me around
the house.  The big catch is how to get my wife to wear a transponder so her
programs can follow *her* and not me around!  :-)  I also need to wait until
the pain of my trying to implement the "follower" technology using X-10
motion detectors is forgotten.

> If it were being used in a whole home automation installation,
> then it would just be serving up data for playback on other
> devices.

I'm sure you'll agree that there are lots of way to manage and transport
video and audio around the house.  It will be interesting to see which ways
prevail in the long run.  HD TV is going to change a lot of standard ways of
doing business and will probably cause some sort of shakeout in the
industry.

> > What kind of PCI cards are you using for your newest server?
> >
> > (So much for "terser!")
>
> We have a 4 zone IR blaster card, one or two 4 port serial cards, and a
> digital input/contact closure card.

Interesting.  You can do the IR with Adicon's IR module.  Same concept, I
believe, just a more modular and external approach.

What's connected to all the serial cards.  Are any of these items available
as USB components?  To me, adding external "bricks" to the Via is a better
way to go because once you've run out of slots with a PC, you're done.  I
believe USB will support 128 devices, so it's clearly the more expandable,
although not so compact, option.  I would also imagine that Via will come
out with some sort of expansion chassis for more PCI cards - the single half
slot they offer has been rather limiting.

--
Bobby G.