Re: Dedicated Z-wave sites?

["Robert L Bass" <robertbass1@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

> But the point is, why have two backbones
> when one will do?...

If a particular app requires a backbone like Zigbee, use it.  If not, choose whatever works best for the required services.  In most
cases Z-Wave or UPB will do just fine.

> Given the heavy requirement for media
> these days...

Again, from what I've been hearing from numerous customers not just now but for years, entertainment media is *not* the primary
requirement.  In most cases it isn't even a consideration.  Just today I sold two more HA systems.  Neither client had any interest
at all in multi-room audio/video.  One has a home theater system but isn't interested in connecting it or any of his source
equipment to the HA system.  The other bought speakers and volume controls for several rooms but was also not interested in
integrating them with the HA system.

I just counted last week's new system sales.  I count as a new system sale any order which includes at least a control panel.  There
were several commercial fire alarms, over twenty burglar alarm systems and five home automation systems.  None of them asked to
integrate A/V.  One guy also bought an intercom system with background music expansion capability but he did not order the required
amplifier.

> which Z-Wave could never handle, and
> the ubiquity of ethernet, there's a good
> argument that having a separate backbone
> is just adding complexity when there's
> already something there that could provide
> a better solution...

Not necessarily.  If you're sharing your Ethernet with Internet, HA and media distribution, you may find it being overworked,
especially as more advanced media servers, CCTV cameras, etc., start gobbling up bandwidth.

> If you have a large house, Z-Wave just
> wouldn't be a good option...

Depends on your idea of large.  Several clients of mine are using Z-Wave in homes exceeding 6,000 sf.  My home has only 3,800 sf
under air plus garage, covered entryway and a mid-size (2,200 sf) lanai.  As soon as I get some of my strength back I plan to
install my ELK M1G system.  With it I will replace most of my light switches, dimmers and (probably) the thermostats using Z-Wave
enabled hardware.  I'll test the range before comitting but I know others whose homes are larger and they've had good results so
far.  I'll let you know how thing work out.

Side note: As soon as I can spare the time to learn your system I'm also interested in CQC.  If I do and it works as well as I
expect it will, I might want to talk with you about configuring an ELK/CQC package.  Let me know if that's an interest.

> A message would have to take many hops
> to get to its destination. You really want multiple broadcast points all of which have a fast wired
> connection back to the automation system,
> which the network would provide.

My home is C-shaped.  Though you can walk a considerable distance from end to end, all the lanai facing walls are no more than 40'
from those on the opposite side.  I'll let you know how well the signal propogates but I suspect it will be OK.

> It's not just my opinion that media will be
> the biggest driver of automation. It's a
> pretty widely held opinion in the automation
> world these days...

It is an idea which has been strongly advanced by companies marketing media connectivity products and services.  I try to find out
what my customers actually want.  Once I have an idea what's important to them, I discuss a few options such as ELK, HAI, HomeSeer
and CQC.  Though I don't sell either of the last two, if one seems appropriate to the job I refer the client to their (or your)
website.  As mentioned earlier though, most end users I talk to every day express little to no interest in integrating AV with HA.

> And we didn't build a system that has
> good media support just for fun, we did
> it because we get many times over
> more interest by having that media support...

I haven't delved deeply into CQC but my initial impression is it's one really powerful system.  From reading your posts (how you
hold yourself and your products forth) I get a very positive impression of you and your business.  However, we seem to be seeing
very divergent clients.  I wonder if that isn't due to your product's particular features.  People describe it as being highly
configurable and extremely strong in media control.  If that is the "press" it's getting and especially if you are doing any PPC
ads, I expect you'd tend to see a highly concentrated subset of the population -- specifically those with an interest in a
media-rich HA system.

Your thoughts?

> Once you get out of our group here of hard
> core geeks...

With a few exceptions, I rather like our little geek community.  :^)

> it's hard to talk someone into why they
> need to have an automation system...

I approach things differently.  I rarely try to talk anyone into HA.  I ask what they want their *system* to do for them.  From the
response I know right away whether they need an HA system, an alarm or perhaps just a multi-zone entertainment system.

BTW, speaking of entertainment systems, that area is a significant portion of our sales.  We sell more Russound, Proficient Audio
and Xantech systems than almost any independent retail outlet in our region.  Yet only a few customer even ask about integration
with HA.  I usually ask if it's an interest but most say no.  Nevertheless, I'm looking forward to ELK's new Russound integration
for their touch screens.

>> Hmm.  The only control technology that
>> comes close to ubiquity is X10 and it
>> does so without so much as a nod to
>> media distribution.  There's a reason for
>> that.  While entertainment distribution
>> and HA have overlapping markets they
>> are not congruent.  In fact, most HA projects do not control entertainment
>> hardware.
>
> I dunno. I think your position is out of
> date now, though I'm sure it was correct
> even a few years ago...

Don't let that buffoon from ASA fool you about me.  I stay on top of what's happening in my industry.

> But if you read our forums or AVS'
> automation forum, there is a lot of
> discussion of media management.
> I think we'd cut our sales in half if
> we weren't strong in this area...

We'll see what happens in this area.  I have no idea how many systems you sell in a month.  I hope it's in the hundreds.  We're in
that range and growing but that includes CCTV systems, intercom systems, etc., as well.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

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