Re: Hard-wired HA lighting; was Re: XTB, reliablity, etc.

["Robert Green" <ROBERT_GREEN1963@xxxxxxxxx>]

"Marc_F_Hult" <MFHult@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:egbrn2pcg4o8r1prfgqlp4hrl8ckpc9mi5@xxxxxxxxxx
> On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 05:30:26 -0500, "Robert Green"
> <ROBERT_GREEN1963@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> <ud6dnbYPAvgnruDYnZ2dnUVZ_h2pnZ2d@xxxxxxx>:
>
> >"Marc_F_Hult" <MFHult@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >
> ><stuff snipped>
> >
> >> Take the example of converting to centralized hard-wired
> >> dimming of a ceiling light powered through a wall switch.
> >
> >That ceiling light represents perhaps one tenth of my HA use.  Most of my
> >modules are plugged into outlets or powerstrips controlling free-standing
> >lamps and devices.  When you have to start pulling wire to every switch
and
> >outlet in the house to create a truly hardwired control system, you're
> >talking about turning the house upside.  Wifey no like!
>
> "[] have to start pulling wire to every switch and outlet in the house"
?!.
>
> HippoSpeak Alert ;-}  Does one 'have to start installing X-10 to every
switch
> and outlet in the house' in order to use X-10 anywhere at all?

No, of course not.  You may have misread the comment you cited.  What I
meant was that MY installation could not be replicated by standard hardwired
lighting-oriented control systems unless I automated plenty of outlets as
well as light switches.  Since most hardwire systems are very heavily
lighting oriented and very poorly outlet oriented, there's really nothing in
hardwire I know of that can duplicate the functionality I have now with X-10
within a reasonable budget.  I would indeed have to turn the entire house
inside-out to come close with hardwiring to what I have with X-10.  I hope
that clarifies my comment.

To duplicate what I control with my X-10 equipment with any number of high
end, hardwired system would cost thousands of dollars, take significant
installation time and effort and would, to the best of my knowledge, still
be unable to integrate the types of devices I can control with a single
8-in-1 X-10 RF remote.

I know my wife's reaction to more than one remote on the coffee table or the
nightstand and it's not good.  Nothing I've seen (at least nothing near a
price point I like!) comes closes the power and flexibility of a $20 X-10
remote.  One reason I've stuck so hard with X-10 is that nothing else offers
the breadth of controllers and manufacturers.  I can choose (and have
chosen) Smarthome, X-10, Leviton, WGL, Monterey, Elk and any number of other
X-10 product vendors.  I have keyfob controllers, automatic timers, handheld
multifunction remotes, RF wall switches, hardwired wall switches, Palmpads,
panic buttons, etc. all without mortgaging the home.  And they all speak the
same, standard, NON-proprietary protocol.  I like the idea of open systems,
and that's another reason X-10 appeals to me and some of the newer protocols
do not.

> Rest assured that there nuthin about hard-wired lighting that requires
this.
> One can have hard-wired control of a single light or outlet.

And one can build a replica of the Eiffel Tower from toothpicks but people
don't, in my experience, automate a single light or outlet.  At least not
for long.  The ones that do have usually just bought an X-10 starter kit and
are at the very threshold of their addiction to HA.  How many people do you
know that have installed something like HAI/ALS or Centralite just to
control a single device?  I doubt it's many.

> The choice of  which to run hardwired and which to control via PLC, RF
> or IR can be based on  actual need and circumstances and not dogma.

I consider myself pretty thorough at performing requirements analyses.  At
least I got paid well to do it in a former life.  I know my needs and my
environment.  The only "dog ma" that's driving my HA design is my wife's
newest acquisition - a terribly pregnant rat terrier - you know, like the
RCA dog, Nipper, Victrolas, "His Master's Voice" etc. which I'll bet half
the young whippersnappers here have never heard of!

We're trying to work out a way to monitor her crate in the basement with
CCTV, temperature and sound so we know when she's about to whelp.  Say,
you're a sensor guru.  What my wife and I *both* would like is an odor
detector that can tell us if the dog has just defecated in her crate long
before the smell gets into the central air handler.  One teensy little rat
terrier can emit a stink fog that could easily be considered chemical
warfare under the Geneva Convention!  :-)

Even worse is that if we don't catch an unscheduled dump in time, the dog
will roll around in her own dung and that's just plain yucky.   I created a
false floor out of an old window fan grate so that liquid waste falls into
the tray below, but solid waste only gets pushed through slowly as the dog
moves around in the crate.  Isn't that more than you ever wanted to know
about dog dung?  You'd be a hero to my wife, like Jeff and Davet are, if you
could come up with a reliable poop scent detector.

So far, the only idea I've had is to mount some sort of position sensor on
the dog's collar since the dog does a little dance before she poops and
*usually* turns two complete circles in the crate before opening the bomb
bay doors.  I know that from the CCTV monitor tapes.  I suppose I could use
image processing like the gent with the pet door but I don't think it would
be as reliable as a poop stink detector.  There's nothing funnier than both
of us watching a DVD or eating dinner and watching both our noses crinkle at
the same time as the sh!t literally hits the fan and we rush downstairs to
minimize the dung rolling and begin the dog and crate cleanup.

> But hard-wired, however reliable is not a panacea. For example, the common
> need for dimming lamps with cords through wall-mounted receptacles does
> present a special case for hard-wired dimming that is (OIME) commonly
> improperly installed by home-improvement enthusiasts even when the dimmer
is a
> conventional, non-automated manual, wall-mounted dimmer and not automated
(eg
> X-10, INSTEON, Z-wave, Centralite).

On this we concur.  My wife's fondness for refurbishing old table and floor
lamps means that almost all our lighting comes not from ceiling fixtures,
but from free-standing lamps.  Ironically, neither one of us is much of a
dimmer user, which is probably just as well considering we're slowly
switching over to CFL's.  For this sort of environment, a simple X-10
appliance module works very nicely.  On the few lights we ever dim, and for
those that are part of the "ALL LIGHTS ON" set, we use lamp modules and
incandescent bulbs because appliance modules will not respond to that
command.

<stuff snipped>

> so dimming of portable (plug-in) lamps is one use where
X-10/INSTEON/Z-wave/etc
> _modules_ have significant advantages over hard-wired owing to practical
> (don't want to burn out the vacuum cleaner) regulatory and cost
> considerations.

On this we also agree.  It's easy to see why X-10 is so useful to us with
our particular environment and use pattern and why I am reluctant to move to
any of the current hard-wired platforms.  I find it very convenient to be
able to not only control all the AV devices from a single remote, but to
control all of the electrical fixtures as well. Controlling all the basic AV
and house functions via a single remote is something that's got very high
SAF.  My greatest frustration is that the UR24A remote can't operate all
housecodes without a number of keypresses to reset the base housecode.

If I ever develop better soldering skills, I could even fix that by
implementing Dan Lanciani's modified PIC.  But it's not really that big an
issue since every room now has a Control Linc Maxi all house code controller
feeding into an XTB.  It's a very nice setup.  The only tweak I foresee is
adding a switch to the Control Linc so that I can use the macro keys with
the lid removed.  That involves finding the internal contacts for the lid
switch and leading them off to a mini pushbutton mounted somewhere on the
case.

Is there any other HA protocol out there that has a 256 device programmable
table top controller for under $50?

--
Bobby G.