Re: No more X10 at Radio Shack?

[Joerg <notthisjoergsch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Robert Green wrote:

> "Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:AQidh.369$Gr2.67@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>>Robert Green wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>
> news:r0%
>
>>><stuff snipped>
>>>
>>>>Ours still flashes 12:00 after an outage. X10 let us down here: We
>>>>bought the X10 universal remote and on the picture it had a "Menu"
>>>>button in the lower left. When I unpacked it I discovered that it had a
>>>>"Guide" button in that space and no menu button. Hence we cannot program
>>>>the clock or anything else at all except by unplugging again and holding
>>>>some magic buttons on the VCR itself. Its original remote had died.
>>>
>>>
>>>Is it *really* their fault?  If you're talking about one of their
>
> learning
>
>>>Universal remotes, it *could* learn the code you're missing in all
>>>probability, but your original died.  Which of the many X-10 remotes are
>
> you
>
>>>talking about?
>>>
>>
>>It's the UR19A. Their fault? Well, when the glossy ad says there is a
>>menu button and then when the product arrives there is no menu button,
>>ahem ...
>
>
> There were a number of mislabelled and mismatched remotes and promotion
> material.  I bought one recently on Ebay that was completely erroneoud.
> IIRC, that remote was one of the cheapest and least functional remotes ever
> made.  They also had the worst RF range, although that might have just been
> a production issue that could have been fixed by tuning.  I think the UR19A
> was also made before the widespread advent of DVD players.  Worst of all,
> it's not able to learn commands from other remotes.  They made a number of
> different remotes, all with their own different strengths but having a
> learning function is a basic necessity, IMHO, to solve just the problem you
> are facing.
>

I bought this one at X10.com so I was hoping that it would be the real
thing. Learning remotes are nice but they don't do you any good when the
original remote broke. That was the reason I bought this one, tacked it
on to an X10 order.

You may be right with the tuning. I found that almost all of the X10
modules I bought where not receiving on 120kHz but seriously de-tuned.
Or probably not tuned at all in production. Might be the same with the
RF parts.

>
>>This VCR is quite old, 8-9 years. But we have learned to live with the
>>problem. When the clock lags too much we pull the power cord and
>>re-program the clock by hand an hour or so later.
>
>
> In the world of consumer electronics, that's two generations ago.  I don't
> even think the original maker is required to provide spare parts for more
> than 5 years, although many do.
>

They better do or their reputation sinks to junk status. But they often
charge so much for spare parts that it makes no sense.
>
>
>>>>Good point. "New and better" is not only about technology, they also
>>>>need to understand marketing. So far I don't see that happen.
>>>
>>>
>>>Dude.  They ramped up sales at X10.com using popunders, popovers,
>
> popups,
>
>>>popouts and spam at a rate that kept breaking records.  I'm not saying
>
> those
>
>>>were *good* tactics but they certainly moved the product. ...
>>
>>
>>I am not so sure about that. Pretty much all the more geeky people I
>>know were turned off by those ads. To the point where some of them
>>didn't go back there.
>
>
> IIRC, they went from sales of 2 million dollars per year to 20 million
> dollars as a result of that campaign.  You and I may have hated it, but it
> made them, at one point, one of the fastest growing companies on the
> Internet.
>

Did they release those numbers? I wonder if they can sustain that with
such cheesy advertising.
>
>
>>>                                                    ... And now I can
>>>benefit from all of the 2 for 1 vouchers X10.com used to give away.
>
> Those
>
>>>vouchers caused people to buy far more gear than they ever needed
>
> (that's
>
>>>the hallmark of effective marketing - selling snow to Eskimos).   I
>
> liked
>
>>>the vouchers, personally, and I know a LOT of people here bought lots of
>>>gear with vouchers.  The popup crap I could live without and did, as
>
> soon as
>
>>>I got a popup blocker.
>>>
>>
>>Hmm, maybe I missed something then. Got no vouchers :-(
>
>
> Vouchers were flooding the Internet in the 2000-2001 time frame, IIRC.  They
> provided some pretty signficant discounts and the more you bought, the more
> vouchers and deals you got.  I have about 20 Hawkeyes because for a while,
> you could get them for $3 or so, or even for free.  If you had a work
> address, a business address and a neighbor you could really acquire a lot of
> equipment.  It must have been cost effective because they made an *awful*
> lot of money.  I don't recall being able to break it down across product
> lines:  it may easily be that they sold more X-10 cams to voyeurs than the
> home automation equipment.
>
>

They also had some nice specials. Like a bunch of appliance modules for
a good discount. Not that's gone, the package deals contain too much
fluff stuff that I don't need. Don't need another keychain remote that
doesn't work for us anyway. And certainly not another UR19A ;-)

>
>>>To get X-10 to work reliably in the new world, you need filters, you
>
> need a
>
>>>meter and you need a signal booster like Jeff's XTB.   That's really a
>
> small
>
>>>cost to protect for what some is a fairly large investment in X-10 gear.
>>>IIRC, there was a comment here a while back that claimed over 5 million
>
> X-10
>
>>>devices are in use.  If true, it's going to be a while before any other
>
> HA
>
>>>technology reaches that number.
>>>
>>
>>That number might include all the ones that were sold. I bet most of
>>them are laying around in a dusty box somewhere in the garage ;-)
>
>
> Manufacturers love to sell products that are never used because they don't
> have to spend a dime supporting them!
>

Oh yeah, they do love that!

>
>>IBM, RCA and many others got out of X10. From what I've heard the number
>>of complaints reached suffocating levels. Sure, you and I and most folks
>>on this NG know how to make it work. But John Doe doesn't. Neither does
>>the neighborhood electrician. Let's face it, Jeff's XTB is probably the
>>best thing that happened to X10 since sliced bread. But you cannot buy
>>it in a store or electrician's supply house.
>
>
> But you *can* buy it.  I just bought 4 more because they make X-10 so much
> more reliable.  Does it solve *all* my X-10 problems?  No, but I never
> expected it to.  What it does is sharply reduce the chances of something
> being left on in the house after I send an ALL OFF command, and that's one
> of the primary reasons I use X-10.
>

This device needs to be available via X10.com and other channels. It
could give X10 a real boost. The common perception among geeky folks
around here is that X10 is unreliable. Well, the way it's sold through
the existing channels (without XTB) it is IMHO unreliable.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com