Re: Insteon compatibility

[nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx (Dave Houston)]

Neil,

Thanks for the measurements. Now I'll try to let you concentrate on your
book.

You obviously have some serious signal suckers. That the Insteon nodules
work where X-10 madules do not is evidence that Insteon certainly addresses
signal level issues but your rather low Insteon signal level is also
evidence that signal suckers will continue to be a problem.

I didn't record any ESM1 readings for Insteon signals because I had noticed
that it was a bit more sensitive to Insteon than to X-10 signals and I did
not know by how much. I do have some oscilloscope screenshots of the Insteon
signals and all seem to be a bit higher than 3Vpp even with some attenuators
between the source (tabletop controller) and the ESM1. When I was able to
catch the signal sent by the SignaLinc that shared a Y connection with the
ESM1, the signal was still higher. (I use those short Y extensions made for
plugging wallwarts into powerstrips.)

The manuals give a minimum PLC transmit level for all of the modules (3.2Vpp
into 5 ohms) but do not state a maximum.

According to the specs in the manual, the Insteon modules (including
SignaLinc) only need a 1mV PLC signal. If that much makes it to the
SignaLinc on Phase A, it will repeat it as RF to Phase B which repeats it as
PLC. Unless the signal suckers reduce the PLC level below 1mV, all the
Insteon modules should work.

It's looking more and more like Insteon is the real thing - reliable
powerline communications at a reasonable price but I would feel better if we
weren't still seeing reports of SwitchLincs & LampLincs losing their address
when there are power glitches.

Neil Cherry <njc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:50:44 GMT, Dave Houston wrote:
>> Neil,
>>
>> I saw much higher Insteon signal levels with my ESM1 which probably
>> indicates that you have more signal suckers than do I. Aside from PLC
>> transmitters I only have one major signal sucker and it's behind a filter.
>>
>> The fact that you get workable Insteon signal levels speaks well for their
>> repeater philosophy.
>
>This is very true, my X10 phase bridge is not amplified. So
>
>> It would be interesting to know the ESM1 X-10 signal strength in your
>> computer room and garage.
>
>       ESM1
>
>+-----------------------------------+
>| O [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] O |
>|    !       !        !        !    |
>|    .1v     1v       2.5v     5v   |
>+-----------------------------------+
>
>Command sent M1MON (sent one at a time not repeated as rapidly as
>possible).
>
>Insteon PLC (sending Insteon)
>
>What I see in both the garage (GA) and the computer room (CR) is a
>similar spike pattern on the ESM1. At first it seems to pulse between
>1v & 1 bar less. Then towards the finish of the command it moves to 1v
>to plus 1 bar (see artwork above).
>
>Insteon PLC (sending X10)
>
>CR = 1v (exact)
>GA = .1v
>
>CM11A
>
>CR = 1 bar less than 2.5v
>GA = 0 (not seen)
>
>TW523 (Ocelot)
>
>CR = 1 bar less than 2.5v
>GA = 0 (not seen)
>
>CM15A
>
>CR = 1 bar less than 2.5v
>GA = .1v
>
>> FWIW, my ESM1 shows a peak response at about 131kHz which is closer to the
>> Insteon carrier than to the X-10 carrier.
>
>Cool! Wish I could get a new chip to support both X10 and Insteon.
>It's probably doable but I'm a little tight on time. I have a feeling
>that many of the fundamentals of X10 PLC will work and x10 problems
>will fail in a similar way with Insteon.
>
>Yeah, yeah, I know so why am I posting here, it's a bit of a
>distraction. :-)