Re: Insteon?

[nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxx (Dave Houston)]

Dan <haguru@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>Dave Houston wrote:
>> Dan <haguru@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Dave Houston wrote:
>>>
>>>>Has anybody seen any detailed technical specifications for Insteon?
>>>>
>>>>All of the initial hype made it sound like each device was capable of
>>>>receiving RF (perhaps I misread that) but what little recent info I've found
>>>>sounds suspiciously like it consists of two RF2PLC devices (i.e. one
>>>>RR501-like device for each phase) with PLC communication to switches, lamp
>>>>and appliance modules.
>>>>
>>>>The initial press releases indicated it would be available 1Q05 but now it
>>>>has slipped to 2Q05.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Check out this introduction guide to Insteon:
>>>http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=1233
>>>
>>>probably contains the most info you can find on the internet.
>>
>>
>> I can find the same regurgitated SmartHome press release at dozens of places
>> on the web.
>>
>>      http://www.techliving.com/article/159.html
>>      http://www.reed-electronics.com/electronicnews/article/CA496933.html
>>
>> http://www.reed-electronics.com/electronicnews/article/CA424448?industryid=21376&industry=Wireless
>>
>>
>why did I have a feeling you were going to pounce on this one ...
>
>1) no pictures at all
>2) no personal experiences of people who actually played with the
>hardware and talked to the SmartHome people.
>3) MUCH more details
>4) all in one guide
>5) free and no ads
>
>what is your problem?

I saw the thread you recommend before my initial post - it came up near the
top of a Google search on "Insteon". There's no useful technical information
in it that in any way addresses my questions. There are several Google hits;
I only listed a few.

You have demonstrated that you lack the ability to understand technical
issues so I give little weight to anything you have to say despite your
claim to be an "ha guru". I'm sure that most of what I say will be beyond
your skill level. Believe me, that's your problem - not mine.

Are there any details about the Insteon PLC protocol? Is it different from
the X-10 PLC protocol? Does it use FSK or ASK? Their specs give nothing
beyond the signal level (4.64V) and frequency (131.65kHz). They say their
protocol is much faster than X-10 but it's not clear whether they are
referring to the RF or PLC protocol. The fact that they misrepresent the
speed of the X-10 PLC protocol does not inspire confidence in anything else
they say.

Where are the beta testers that you claimed were testing these a few months
back? Are they the same superhero time travelers who've been using
(according to you) UPB for years?

The SignaLinc "wireless access points" sound like little more than all
housecode "transceivers". HINT: The fact that two are required is an
IMPORTANT CLUE.

Is the RF range (up to 150' in the specs) measured in free air? If so, it's
likely to be 30-40' max under typical conditions. Will the SignaLinc work
with X-10 RF transmitters or only with SmartHome's design?

I believe 131.65kHz and ~4.64V is what you get using a Philips TDA5051A FSK
PLC modem chip and an off the shelf crystal. Are they using this or have
they designed their own chip? One of the Google hits said they haven't
decided on a foundry and that hardware will be unavailable before 2006 but
it's unclear what this means since details are lacking.

131.65kHz (whether ASK or FSK) is likely to be bedevilled by the same
gremlins as X-10's 120kHz ASK. Some of the articles mention the need for
filters but there's insufficient detail to make valid judgements let alone
comparisons to X-10. SmartHome seems to think that amplifying the signal is
the answer but I consider that to be treating the symptom instead of the
problem. Besides, CE limits PLC signals to 5V so anything sold in Europe
will have to avoid using "boosters" (unless their output is limited to 5V).
The RF frequency they've chosen is illegal in Europe so maybe they plan to
skip that market.

Are all of the devices capable of both RF and PLC? If their PLC protocol is
faster than X-10 how do they maintain backward compatibility? There are
mentions of "simultaneous" commands - is their signal somehow embedded in
the X-10 signal? How do you know whether to send an X-10 command or an
Insteon command to a specific device?

Many of the articles mention it is capable of 128-bit AES(?) encryption and
one says it can be used for garage door openers. Unless it uses rolling
codes, I can open the garage door in a matter of seconds no matter the
length of the encryption key. I really see little value to such encryption
for HA purposes.

What are the details of its two-wayness? If each device can receive RF and
acknowledge receipt via PLC, it would be a step in the right direction. If
the devices only communicate with the SignaLinc, it's less so but, again,
without details it's hard to form valid judgements.

If they are only going to release such details to "qualified" developers as
they've done with the USB interface then we may never know the details.