Re: Need help with PLC noise problems in a Manhattan (New York City) apartment

["AlanTinNYC" <AlanTinNYC@xxxxxxx>]

No, I'm not confused, but I just got very busy with my day job and came
down with a minor illness, so I couldn't follow up for a while.

After considering everything, and after both my electrician and I tried
to discuss this with Leviton on the phone (their expert was a bit
rude), I think the next step is to write to Leviton (I have a
friendlier tech's e-mail address) including some of the detail I wrote
to this group and ask for a better explanation or description of their
product.

Our lights are no longer going "crazy." They do occasionally shut down,
about once an evening, not three times an hour, and they no longer
spontaneously switch on.  But they are not yet steadily controlled by
the CM15A, probably because we do have the attenuators installed
(improperly, I fear) and don't yet have the HCA02-10E's installed.
Much of the time, the controller works fine, but when I'm metering
sustained, stray 120kHz activity it doesn't work.


Considering everything so far...

1)  Yes, I do want/need a "firewall" so to speak, although I understand
such a device would not digitally block all unwanted stuff  (as a
computer network firewall would) but attenuate it by absorbing it (as
does the 6825) or phase-cancel it (as does the 6824 or PZZ01) down to
tolerable levels.


2)  Acknowledging that "X-10 is decades old.  The designers just
couldn't foretell how much things would change in 20+ years...," then
unless the incoming noise levels are EXTREMELY high (greater than the
30:1 attenuation provided by the Leviton filters), wouldn't the proper
application of hard-wired filters on my panels combined with plug-in
filters on my own noisy appliances protect the network against this,
without a need to "generate your own power and disconnect from the
grid"?


3)  I'm just too wary of RF solutions in the Big City.  And what is
likely to happen to any RF network's integrity in a few years?  Didn't
we all love our 2.4GHz cordless phones until wireless home network
routers came out?  I don't use the RF function in the CM15A; I just use
it as a whole house Sabbath timer (well, technically, half a house,
since I'm isolating my two service panels and will ultimately use two
controllers).  I have the RF function on my CM15A shut off except
during testing.

Or should I trash my PLC system, go with RF and plan on trashing *any*
home control network every 10 years or so because we "just can't
foretell how much things will change"?

I propose to this group that "new" isn't necessarily better, "old"
isn't necessarily archaic or obsolete so long as we have the network
integrity protected.  That could mean building an effective PLC
firewall, or it could mean encasing my home in concrete and lead to
shield it against anything stray flying through the air.  I prefer to
filter just the wires.


4)  I just don't "get" how the 6285 attenuator is supposed to work.  If
it is supposed to knock down everything flowing through my house at
around 120kHz, then why does my unamplified controller work during
non-noisy times?  And if it installs on two 15 Amp branch breakers (as
per the written instructions), then how does it block my neighbor's
noise from flowing from the main feeds onto the other branches in my
panel?  (Please see my earlier illustration.)  Is it an effective
"signal sucker," sucking everything at the panel?  If not, what
protects my WS12A dimmers on the other branches the 6285 isn't wired
to?  If it is an effective signal sucker, why wouldn't it take care of
my noisy PC monitor or other devices (every "laptop, UPS, shaver,
battery charger, CFL, dimmer, etc.") as well?

But I'm speaking hypothetically now.  I'm not getting the 6285 to
perform consistently, so I think it's not properly -- or effectively --
installed.

When speaking with Leviton last week, the first tech said we should
connect the 6285 "as close to the incoming feed as possible." That
meant connecting it to two separate 15 amp breakers, each breaker the
first in line on its phase, and suggesting that this could block
incoming noise from trickling to other branch circuits.  But then the
"specialist" who took over the call practically barked, "No, I don't
want this on two separate breakers.  I want this on a single,
double-pole breaker!"  So much for placing the filter as close to the
incoming feed as possible... Time to write to Leviton.


5)  Before I sink in an additional $85 for each of two HCA02-10Es (and
possibly knock holes in my plaster & lath walls for the boxes to house
them), I want to know that they will be effective.  Does it boost all
120kHz activity?  Won't that put me back where I started?  Does it
"recognize" clean X10 code separate from noise?  How?  What happens
when a clean X10 packet collides with noise?  We already know that X10
won't work when two good packets collide.  While I can get around
some packet collisions by programming the CM15A to repeat commands,
what do I do to get around 3 - 4 hours of sustained noise?

Can't one just amplify the output of a controller before it plugs
into the powerline?  That would introduce X10 signal at several volts
onto a powerline network where all 120kHz activity is then attenuated
by a whole house filter.  Does anyone make such a feed-thru amplifier?




That's where things stand.  Given my workload and the upcoming
holidays, I don't think I'll be getting to this until 2006.


Merry/Happy whatever-you-celebrate, everybody!


-- Alan