Re: 2 100amp panel coupler help needed

[Larry Loucks <Larry.Loucks@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

carlford wrote:
> I have 2 100 amp panels side by side and each of them has a sub panel
> off of them.  I have intermittent problems from time to time but it is
> also a vacation home so I'm not there all of the time.  There is a
> leviton whole house blocker coupler (4851) in each of the 100 amp
> panels and I have been using one leviton coupler repeater (6201) and a
> capacitor in the other 100 amp panel and a capacitor in each of the sub
> panels.  This gives me the best performance so far but it is not
> perfect. Yes I know it will never be but I'm pretty sure it can be
> better.  My elk meter shows at least 1/2 of the scal lit up on 80 to
> 85% of the house's outlets and of coure then we get very weak on
> others.  This place is about 4500 sq ft and 3 stories but less than 5
> years old.  The furtherest point from the panels is very weak which is
> after the sub panel that runs off of the panel without the repeater.
> Do you think somethin like an ACT CR134 would boost the signal enough
> and since the 2 main panels have 4851's on them ???  I do have both
> 4851's off for now anbd that gets me the best signal for now.  When i
> put both of them on it weakens the far end to the point that i loose a
> whole room totally.  "Uncle Phil" has never addressed the setup with 2
> 100 amp panels with 2 blockers on them as of now and I have been
> waitn=ing for him to do in his next (if coming) article.  Again if you
> have a 2 panel setup and it is working good for you maybe you can give
> some pointers.  Is the ACT CR134 really an amplifier or should I just
> try an additional 6201 ??  Ther is one pr511 installed and under a
> certain condition it can be made to ping-pong with the repeater (6201)
> as my setup is now but I can live with or without the pr511 if
> necessary.
> Thanks in advance for any and all posts.
> Carl Ford
> PM accepted if requested here
>
I have not had any experience with the X10 blockers you are using but I
have a 6000 sq. ft home that is fed with 2 200 amp panels.  There is one
sub panel. Each panel has a Leviton 51120-1 whole house surge suppresser
on it.  The feeds run from the meter which is around 100 ft from panels.

I built this home so I was able tell the electricians how to organize
the panels.  One of the feeds, the one with the sub panel, has all of
the circuits that I don't control, appliances, hot water heaters, HVAC,
etc.  The other panel with the lighting, outlets, etc., has a passive
X10 phase coupler on it.

I use PCS switches, numerous lamp & appliance modules and HCA to run the
house.

This setup works very very well.  I have tried a HCA-02 Leviton repeater
and although it worked well from a signal level point of view they have
a problem with certain sequences so I just went back to the passive
coupler.  From what I have heard the ACT repeaters to do not have this
problem.

I am able to get a good X10 signal across to the second panel for a
couple of outside light circuits that we had to put on that panel.  Of
course the X10 signal from my controller has to go out to the meter and
back to get to the other panel but it does work.

I would recommend the following to start:

1) I am not clear on your whole house surge suppressers but put X10
friendly ones at each panel.

2) Put X10 passive couplers on each panel.  What I mean by that is a
passive coupler that is tuned to the X10 120 Khz frequency not just a
cap that will pass a lot of noise as well.

3) Control the majority of your lighting from a controller located very
close to the panels.  For example, send the "switch on/off" signal to
the controller and then let the controller turn the light on/off.  For
remote circuits this cuts in half the distance that the X10 signal has
to go.

4) Of course do all of the standard stuff using filters to improve the
signal.

4) If your panels are not well organized and you have to cross the panel
boundary all of the time and it doesn't work reliably I see a couple of
approaches to try.
  1) use a controller for each panel and go controller to controller for
programs that have to cross the panels.  I assume the controllers are
located at the panels so at least you only have the distance to the
meter to cover not another long run of house wiring.
  2) Use the ACT repeaters that support multiple repeaters and use one
each panel.

Larry