Re: Silent Knight Selection Tool

[Jim Davis <Madno@xxxxxxx>]

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 3:28:11 PM UTC-4, ABLE1 wrote:
> On 7/27/2022 12:32 PM, RTS wrote:=20
> > On 7/26/2022 7:31 AM, ABLE1 wrote:=20
> >> On 7/25/2022 8:54 PM, RTS wrote:=20
> >>> On 7/25/2022 4:44 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:=20
> >>>> On 7/25/2022 2:05 PM, ABLE1 wrote:=20
> >>>>> On 7/25/2022 3:19 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:=20
> >>>>>> On 7/25/2022 5:08 AM, ABLE1 wrote:=20
> >>>>>>> On 7/24/2022 10:14 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:=20
> >>>>>>>> On 7/23/2022 6:39 PM, ABLE1 wrote:=20
> >>>>>>>>> On 7/23/2022 9:01 PM, ABLE1 wrote:=20
> >>>>>>>>>> Hey Guys,=20
> >>>>>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>>>>> I am challenged with the SKST 1.4v  I have it on a Laptop but=
=20
> >>>>>>>>>> when I=20
> >>>>>>>>>> load all the parts and go to "Battery Calculations" the=20
> >>>>>>>>>> software won't=20
> >>>>>>>>>> respond.  I need this version because this is for a SK5820XL=
=20
> >>>>>>>>>> Panel.=20
> >>>>>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>>>>> Since it is no longer made and or obsolete the newer version=
=20
> >>>>>>>>>> of SKST=20
> >>>>>>>>>> does not give the 5820XL as a choice to load parts.=20
> >>>>>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>>>>> So, my question is does anyone have the 1.4v of SKST or newer=
=20
> >>>>>>>>>> but not=20
> >>>>>>>>>> 2.0v since it only has the new stuff??=20
> >>>>>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>>>>> BTW I had this on my Office PC but it was wiped out when I=20
> >>>>>>>>>> upgraded=20
> >>>>>>>>>> to 2.0v a few years ago.=20
> >>>>>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>>>>> Didn't think I would have to put together a Submittal for a=20
> >>>>>>>>>> add on=20
> >>>>>>>>>> to a 5820XL that I installed 11 years ago.=20
> >>>>>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any hints or help.=20
> >>>>>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>>>>> Les=20
> >>>>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>>>> Hey,=20
> >>>>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>>>> Well I have working on this problem for at least 6 hours.=20
> >>>>>>>>> With in 5 minutes of hitting the send button on the above post=
=20
> >>>>>>>>> I actually found version 1.5 on my office PC.  I loaded on my=
=20
> >>>>>>>>> WIN10 Laptop and the "Battery Calculations" did the same thing=
=20
> >>>>>>>>> and locked up the PC.  I then loaded on my older WIN7 Laptop an=
d=20
> >>>>>>>>> it works just fine. ((^*%%**^#@^%*&^%^(*&!!!=20
> >>>>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>>>> Anyhow, I think that I am OK!!!!  Sympathies will be accepted!!=
!=20
> >>>>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>>>> Thanks,=20
> >>>>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>>>> Les=20
> >>>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>>> I was just thinking its been a very very long time since I did a=
=20
> >>>>>>>> fire alarm submittal, but I remember doing the calculations by=
=20
> >>>>>>>> hand from the individual MFG specs.  I didn't even know there=20
> >>>>>>>> was a calculator.=20
> >>>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>> Hi Bob,=20
> >>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>> I know the the Battery Calc's can be done manually but I never=20
> >>>>>>> did it=20
> >>>>>>> that way.  The SKST allows you to choose the panel and all of its=
=20
> >>>>>>> expanders, smoke models, heat models, pull stations, Horn Strobes=
,=20
> >>>>>>> etc. etc. and THEN it will generate a beautiful spread sheet of=
=20
> >>>>>>> the battery calc's.  Yea!!!=20
> >>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>> My current challenge is that I have lost the original file for th=
is=20
> >>>>>>> project and now have to go back and find all the numbers and part=
s=20
> >>>>>>> to put into SKST along with the new for this upgrade.=20
> >>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>> I am getting closer now that I got the program working!!!=20
> >>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>> Call me Spoiled!!!=20
> >>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>> Later,=20
> >>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>> Les=20
> >>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>=20
> >>>>>> I'm reminded of one of the first fire alarm submittals I did. I=20
> >>>>>> stopped by a local architectural and engineering company to get=20
> >>>>>> copies of the blue prints.  They handed me a black line blank=20
> >>>>>> floor plan and told me I could use their big drafting table in the=
=20
> >>>>>> main floor.  I drew in a fire alarm, drew a riser diagram, and=20
> >>>>>> pulled calculations from my notes. Then they ran blue print copies=
=20
> >>>>>> for me for a buck a sheet.=20
> >>>>>>=20
> >>>>>> As opposed to another architect I worked with once.  JUST ONCE.  I=
=20
> >>>>>> called to ask for a copy of their floor plan.  They said 3 bucks a=
=20
> >>>>>> sheet.  When I arrived I asked for three blank floor plans and=20
> >>>>>> they proceed to charge me $20 bucks a sheet.  I went from zero to=
=20
> >>>>>> furious in about a tenth of a second.  The architect came out and=
=20
> >>>>>> seemed surprised.   He tried to back pedal and say, "Well if we=20
> >>>>>> told you three then we'll do three."=20
> >>>>>>=20
> >>>>>> I refused.  "If 20 is your price I don't want to owe you=20
> >>>>>> anything," as I threw cash money on the counter, scooped up the=20
> >>>>>> prints, and walked out.   A few week later he mailed me a check=20
> >>>>>> for the difference.  I sent it back voided out.  One of my buddies=
=20
> >>>>>> did a lot of work for that architect, and had nothing but good=20
> >>>>>> things to say about him so who know.   I know whenever I bid a job=
=20
> >>>>>> drawn by that architect I made sure in my terms it said customer=
=20
> >>>>>> to provide prints to my office by mail or courier at their=20
> >>>>>> expense.  I had two generals ask me why that term only appeared on=
=20
> >>>>>> some of my contracts.  I may or may not have included profanity in=
=20
> >>>>>> my explanation.=20
> >>>>>>=20
> >>>>>>=20
> >>>>>=20
> >>>>>=20
> >>>>> Hi Bob,=20
> >>>>>=20
> >>>>> I understand your frustration with that kind of process.  However,=
=20
> >>>>> here=20
> >>>>> I have to provide the architectural drawings plans that are sighed,=
=20
> >>>>> sealed and stamped by the architect to include with the submittal f=
or=20
> >>>>> a permit.  Meaning that the Code Official will not accept a drawing=
=20
> >>>>> with=20
> >>>>> my pencil lines on it.=20
> >>>>>=20
> >>>>> The Architect that I use does a walk thru with me I give him my lay=
out=20
> >>>>> plan, he draws up everything and prints out the copies I need.  Whi=
ch=20
> >>>>> I need 3 copies for Code Official and I get one for me and one for =
the=20
> >>>>> customer.  He charges be for his services, the last time was $700.=
=20
> >>>>> I bill the customer for that and for my time to put the submittal=
=20
> >>>>> documents together in order to get the permit.=20
> >>>>>=20
> >>>>> I have a walk thru meeting set with him for next Monday morning to=
=20
> >>>>> get the plan design set up and started.=20
> >>>>>=20
> >>>>> Later,=20
> >>>>>=20
> >>>>> Les=20
> >>>>=20
> >>>> Oh, yeah.  A licensed electrical engineer has to rubber stamp the=20
> >>>> plans for fire alarm here.  I always provided them the complete=20
> >>>> drawings to review, markup, and approve.  Never had one make any=20
> >>>> changes.  They just took my plans and a few days later asked for my=
=20
> >>>> payment for the rubber stamped copy.  $700 sounds about right.  That=
=20
> >>>> rubber stamp used to cost me $500 on average back when I still did=
=20
> >>>> fire alarm.=20
> >>>>=20
> >>>>=20
> >>>>=20
> >>> sound like you guys have some, ar-e-tec-ks that know a little bit=20
> >>> about FA submissions..=20
> >>> I got plans from one over here (Ky) from a guy in (IL)..  (mid 80's)=
=20
> >>> he did the whole buildings engineering, HVAC, Electrical, Plumbing,=
=20
> >>> etc..  Even the FA..=20
> >>> Once I got my set of plans,  I saw right away the guy didn't know=20
> >>> "Jack" about FA systems...=20
> >>> I did the plan according to his drawing and spec's..  and as expected=
=20
> >>> it came back..=20
> >>> I contacted the State and reminded them he was the site engineer and=
=20
> >>> they had approved his original plans...=20
> >>> They back peddled, and asked me if I could correct the original, that=
=20
> >>> they'd wave any fee for submissions....=20
> >>> That time I did a correction..=20
> >>> But clearly explained, that I wouldn't do it again...=20
> >>> I did 3 other jobs with that engineer later, each time I got a blank=
=20
> >>> floor plan, with no FA drawings any where listed...=20
> >>> The longer your in this business, the screwier some stuff becomes...=
=20
> >>>=20
> >>> RTS=20
> >>>=20
> >>=20
> >>=20
> >> Rocky,=20
> >>=20
> >> WOW!!!  You must have had too much time on you hands in the '80's!!!=
=20
> >>=20
> >> You did make a point that was apparently heard.  Good JOB!!!=20
> >>=20
> >> Les=20
> >>=20
> >>=20
> > on another time,  I had one of those pencil pushers, inspecting after a=
=20
> > fire, a theater..=20
> > (The local fire chief was praising the FA for informing them before the=
=20
> > blaze got out of hand..)=20
> > So the State inspector was trying to razz me about the way I ran wires=
=20
> > in a closed "attic" walk way..=20
> > Tried to tell me it had to be in conduit because the "public" could get=
=20
> > to it..=20
> > It just so happened, that was the spot where the fire had started..=20
> > (a blow back from a gas heater which had, had its safety covers removed=
..)=20
> > (remember the old attic heat sensors, that used 2 bare copper wires=20
> > twisted with "scotch tape" as the separator, once it got hot the tape=
=20
> > melted and a short occurred)=20
> > Well that's how the FA had been tripped, when the fire melted the=20
> > insulation on one of the loop wires..=20
> > I pointed that little tid-bit out to the junior g-man,=20
> > Nothing more was said about the way I ran wires...=20
> > (I understand his report was kicked back 3 times before the main office=
=20
> > accepted it for filing...)=20
> > ..=20
> > the ole saying still holds true,  "If you don't know how to do anything=
,=20
> >  become a state employee, or even better an "Inspector".=20
> >=20
> > RTS=20
> >=20
> >
> I love the final "quote"!!=20
>=20
> My last fire inspection a 3 Story Building was a Upgrade to a system=20
> that was installed in the 60's. The Fire Inspector kept pointing out=20
> certain wires that were part of the original install and were not=20
> caulked at wall or ceiling penetrations. I had to tell him that is=20
> NOT my wire. All MY NEW wires runs were caulked everywhere I had=20
> to run them!!=20
>=20
> He just grumbled and approved the install. He had also inspected the=20
> new sprinkler install. And they had the drop ceiling open so he saw=20
> the old fire wire and decided to beat me up for not caulking those=20
> old wires. I would have been there for an extra year or two to=20
> find them all. As far as I was concerned it was grandfathered in.=20
>=20
> Les
HA!
I just   L O V E  to hear all of these "fire alarm" stories.
It makes me SOOOOOO00000000oooooooo! happy that after  being blind sided a =
couple of times by the local AHJ I told him to shove his stupid rules and r=
egulation up is ass.=20
Never did another commercial fire system again. I decided that I no longer =
wanted to spend and waste my valuable time following their stupid "whims" w=
hen I could be doing installations and actually making money instead of doi=
ng paperwork, paperwork, paperwork. And although I was getting paid - - - -=
  it didn't ever seem like it was enough and worth it.That was about 30 yea=
rs ago and I've never looked back or regretted it.=20
.
The last straw:
I don't know if you have them in your area but around here they have busine=
sses called Tutor Time pre schools. I was doing them for commercial fire. I=
'd have an electrician run most of the wire. Typically they'd choose one st=
ory buildings to occupy. However, one time they chose an industrial buildin=
g with twenty foot trussed ceiling. They built the classrooms with eight fo=
ot ceilings and put HVAC and other utilities above the drop ceiling. Normal=
ly fire detection would be on the trusses in an open building but with a dr=
op ceiling throughout, there was no way component inspections could take pl=
ace without taking down extensive sections of the drop ceiling every time. =
Prior to installation I asked the fire marshal how he wanted this problem a=
ddressed. He said put all the fire sensors in the classrooms, and since it =
wasn't a plenum HVAC just using duct smoke's was fine as long as all combus=
tibles were removed from above the drop ceiling. The whole building was com=
pleted. The final FA inspection was delayed but I (fortunately ) asked for =
and received my final payment. When the (different)  fire marshal finally g=
ot there weeks later he said=20
- - - - No. The sensors had to be put on the trusses above the drop ceiling=
 and he didn't care if the drop ceiling had to come down for inspections an=
d if someone told us different did we get it in writing? I looked at the ow=
ner and the GC who had been with me at the beginning and who had heard what=
 the original fire marshal had said and shrugged my shoulders. When he woul=
dn't relent I said to the owner and GC  " I'm gone. It's in your hands now"
And to the fire marshal my famous last words =20
The building finally opened for business so they either paid off someone of=
 contested the ruling - - - - - I don't know - - - - - or care.
The End.=20