Re: Vista 20P 5800 series wireless InSaNiTy!

[Nick Markowitz <nmarkowitz@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Friday, January 15, 2021 at 1:34:28 AM UTC-5, Airdorn wrote:
> Hello friends!=20
>=20
> 30 year service tech with a local family-owned alarm company here. I've b=
een installing/servicing the Honeywell Vista series all the way back from t=
he 10/20SE days. Man, those were terrible panels. The 15/20P is obviously m=
uch, much better.=20
>=20
> I'm well versed in the 15/20P -- they make up probaly 80% of roughly 5000=
 accounts we monitor, so I see the Vista 20P multiple times every day becau=
se I run service calls fixing what'd you'd expect: Broken switches, dead ba=
tteries, the usual garden variety stuff. We have a massive amount of 5800 s=
eries wireless stuff out there and I see that every day too..=20
>=20
> I'm not posting this to boast, but to demonstrate that I'm pretty darned =
sharp with the 5800 series wireless stuff on the V20P. I've seen every poss=
ible problem, or so I thought.....=20
>=20
> [BEGIN THE MEAT OF THE POST]=20
>=20
> Over the past 2-ish years I've seen a certain problem a handfull of times=
 with V20P wireless. I've not been able to discover the cause of this or an=
y remedy. Honeywell tech support is baffled and they can't offer any insigh=
t at all. Here is what happens.=20
>=20
> Vista 20P alarm system with 5881 receiver (L, M, or H -- doesn't matter) =
is installed, up and running. There may or may not be hardwire zones instal=
led. That does not matter. Presence of other devices like zone expander doe=
s not appear to matter either.=20
>=20
> In every instance I have seen this problem, there have been numerous 5816=
 wireless sensors enrolled and operating fine. There may also be wireless s=
moke, wireless glassbreak, etc.=20
>=20
> After the system is up and running for a period of time --- I've not been=
 able to determine how long, or even if that matters -- the system may begi=
n to act erratically as if doors were opening/closing very rapidly, over an=
d over. For instance, when a 5816 sensor is tripped (by opening the door), =
the V20P displays the faulted zone approprately. When closed, the display s=
hows appropriately. But within a few seconds, the zone will appear to trip =
again and restore very rapidly. A few seconds later, it may happen again, t=
hen restore. If clime mode is on, the keypad will chime each time. Then, th=
e zone may stay faulted for a seemingly-random period of time, then restore=
. Then it may work correctly for a while. But ten trip/restore again -- som=
etimes in rapidfire display. It's quite the comedy to watch: someone opens =
the front door, for instance, and the keypad displays and chimes as expecte=
d, then does it again and again and again in an erratic way -- as if someon=
e were opening/closing the door very very fast, faster than a human being c=
ould possibly do it.=20
>=20
> Each time I have run into this, I have deleted the zone, and relearned a =
new sensor, reasoning the sensor has gone wonky. But then, that one will al=
so behave the same way. Learning it by tripping the sensor or by manually e=
ntering the serial number does not matter. The loop number (internal reed o=
r external contacts) does not matter either.=20
>=20
> I have deleted the zone and moved to a new one with a new sensor -- same =
thing.=20
>=20
> I have deleted all zones and started over -- same thing.=20
>=20
> On a couple of occasions, when programming a new wireless zone, when the =
system is in learn mode, seemingly-random serial numbers will sort of "lear=
n" into the system over and over. None of the serial numbers displayed on t=
he learn screen are ones on the system. And no, my service truck doesn't ha=
ve any rogue transmitting sensors in the trashcan in the back! :)=20
>=20
> The learn mode behavior lead me to believe that a nearby system V20P -- m=
aybe a next door neighbor -- is interfering with programming. Honeywell tec=
h support seems to believe that may be the right track, but they offer no f=
urther help along those lines.=20
>=20
> I just don't know why aready-programmed sensors would be affected in such=
 a way that the weird run-mode behavior happens. All I can think of is that=
 there is some kind of wireless data spamming from the offending neighbor.=
=20
>=20
> ---=20
>=20
> As anecdotal example, I once had to put all-new wireless on an existing V=
ista 20P: 19 5816 window sensors. So, to save myself time at the customer's=
 house, I went ahead and put batteries in all the devices at the shop and g=
ot them ready for fast enrolling.=20
>=20
> That was a mistake! When I brought them all to the customer's house, I fo=
und that I could not get ANYTHING to program. I had to take all batteries b=
ack out of them and then put them back in one-by-one while programming each=
 zone. My theory is that since they were all unprogrammed and, thus, unreco=
gnized by the system, they were all talking gibberish to the V20P and the r=
eceiver was rejecting all that noise and kind of flooding out with the nons=
ense. Only after each one was enrolled one-by-one did that system work prop=
erly.=20
>=20
> But this post is about existing systems that work fine but begin displayi=
ng the weird run-time behavior either after adding a single new wireless se=
nsor, or a whole new system that just beings to fail on it's own relatively=
 soon after initial install.=20
>=20
> One last thing. Normally on the 5881 receiver the red LED will flicker 4 =
times very rapidly when it receives any sort of message from a sensor. If a=
 5816 sensor is tripped, the light will flicker. When restored, it will fli=
cker. That is normal behavior.=20
>=20
> When this weird problem is happening, the red LED will flicker as expecte=
d when the sensor is tripped. But while the weird behavior is happening, th=
e red LED is NOT flickering, which leads me to believe a sensor is not actu=
ally transmitting anything to the receiver at that moment. It's as if the V=
20P system itself is roiled in some internal turmoil.=20
>=20
>=20
> If anyone has seen this problem and has any insight that could shed some =
light, I'd appreciate a reply!=20
>=20
>=20
> Airdorn
I have not experinced this issue but have 5800 deployed mostly commercail i=
nstalls but as others have noted all my installs are properly grounded. I a=
lso tend to install the receiver inside the vista 20P can which cuts down i=
nterference to board