Re: 4/2 4/1 Timing Protocol Spefications wanted (Alarm protocols)

[Jim Davis <alarminex@xxxxxxx>]

On Wednesday, December 29, 2021 at 2:16:48 AM UTC-5, Bager2700 wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 7:55:36 PM UTC-8, ABLE1 wrote:=20
> > On 12/28/2021 9:52 PM, Bager2700 wrote:=20
> > > On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 6:30:04 PM UTC-8, ABLE1 wrote:=20
> > >> On 12/28/2021 6:00 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:=20
> > >>> On 12/28/2021 2:25 PM, Bager2700 wrote:=20
> > >>>> Hey I know 4/2 protocol is older than the days, however I am looki=
ng=20
> > >>>> for the specs for the timing of the protocol.=20
> > >>>>=20
> > >>>> AKA from Dialer going on line to waiting for station receiver onli=
ne=20
> > >>>> panel data tone bursts --- ACK -- kissoff etc.=20
> > >>>>=20
> > >>>> Although the timing is fairly flexible i would like to know the=20
> > >>>> actual specs for the sequence and timing.=20
> > >>>>=20
> > >>>> I have the SIA, Contact ID, FSK, etc but 4/2 formats i have not fo=
und=20
> > >>>> information.=20
> > >>>> Does anyone have the info?=20
> > >>>> Thanks inadvance=20
> > >>>>=20
> > >>>>=20
> > >>>=20
> > >>>=20
> > >>> Best guess? Whatever the acceptable timing is between digits for pu=
lse=20
> > >>> telephone dialing. Really. That's where it comes from. Its also why=
=20
> > >>> pulse format is so slow compared it CID or other single tone/digit =
formats.=20
> > >>>=20
> > >> Hi Bob, Not even gonna hint you are wrong!! No way!!!!=20
> > >> But, what I will say is that if Bager2700 hasn't already Googled Pul=
se=20
> > >> Dialing AKA "Rotary Dial" the answer is as follows.=20
> > >>=20
> > >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=20
> > >> Within the Bell System the dial pulse period is nominally one-tenth =
of a=20
> > >> second long, permitting a rate of 10 pulses per second. Modern=20
> > >> telephones are now wired for push-button dialing (see below), but ev=
en=20
> > >> they can usually generate pulse signals when the push-button pad is=
=20
> > >> operated in conjunction with electronic timing circuits.=20
> > >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=20
> > >>=20
> > >> Have a good rest of the week!!!!=20
> > >>=20
> > >> Les=20
> > > Hey guys it not, the pulse dialing (make/break ratio) specs that I am=
 looking for but the 4/2 protocol ... so communicator goes on line and comp=
letes it dialing via DTMF or Pulse. Then waits for the Central station RX t=
o come online with its format tones. How long will the 4/2 wait for this, h=
ow many milliseconds are the data bursts and timing of the data.=20
> > >=20
> > > so ONLINE-<wait how long?> <CS, tones approx 750ms><communicator data=
 bursts time?>< no pulse time?><next data> then finally <kissoff approx 750=
ms> <communications completed.>=20
> > > The mystery is what the actual specification are for the 4/2 data for=
mat?=20
> > >=20
> > > Hope that all make sense?=20
> > Dear Bager2700,=20
> >=20
> > Please understand that we here are/were Alarm Dealer/Installers. We=20
> > just have to properly connect the phone line thru a RJ-31X block,=20
> > program the panel with the proper phone number for the Central Station=
=20
> > Receiver, Enter the proper Account Number for the Customer in the prope=
r=20
> > fields and save it. Then trip a zone and check the Test History for the=
=20
> > Receiver and all is good. I never cared about what you are asking.=20
> > That being said, I did a little Google and found the following.=20
> >=20
> > https://www.patriotsystems.com/p65library/4X2Format.html=20
> >=20
> > That may get you a little closer. Beyond that I am at a loss.=20
> >=20
> > Good Luck!!=20
> >=20
> > Les
> Thanks Les , finding info on the new formats SIA, FSK, IP, Contact ID, is=
 so easy but when we are talking before internet, and fax machines, kinda t=
he old voice dialer days with the circular recorder tape (that is a whole o=
ther subject) The 4/2 - 3/1 was a massive upgrade, we are going old school =
and the info, while just seems to be missing.
.
I'd have to echo Les's reply. As installers we didn't have to know how it w=
orked only if it did or didn't. As a matter of fact, it's the same with SIA=
 and CID. These are thing we didn't have control of anyway, so it wasn't/is=
n't of any importance. If communication doesn't happen, it's a matter of a =
control panel defect, line problem or (unlikely) central station problem an=
d the cure is process of elimination. ie, change the panel , etc. We don't =
have the means (tools) of measuring these functions readily available - - -=
 -  anyway.
And now  -- - - - - - 4/2 format is of little interest to most and actually=
 unknown by the younger generation of installers.=20