Re: Napco Gemini P3200 area?

[Jim <alarminex@xxxxxxx>]

On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 12:44:51 AM UTC-4, E DAWSON wrote:
> Napco...I have always called it Crapco. Many years ago, working for some=
=20
> company, I came across such a system. I came away with the thought of "Wh=
at=20
> a convoluted system" I am not attacking anyone who loves these to death. =
But=20
> the logic and the reasoning of how these engineers who came up with this,=
 to=20
> me, is so convoluted. I used to have a whole bunch of them from having=20
> pulled them out of jobs, some brand new. I finally threw them out. The=20
> keypad was not user friendly in my estimation. I find that the most=20
> important thing after built-in programming abilities, is how easy is it f=
or=20
> the average (and below average) consumer to use it correctly without=20
> complications. Let's face it, we have all met Joe, the user who needs to =
be=20
> told everything at least 5 times before he begins to get it. Yes, I have=
=20
> programmed them in the past, it is now just a fading memory. Kind of like=
 a=20
> horrible accident that you once experienced with all the pain, and then,=
=20
> after a while, you do not remember the pain anymore or how it felt, only=
=20
> that you did go thru such an experience.
>=20
> Spyros, I feel your pain. It's time to cut off the members. Save your=20
> country now! Greece needs to make it thru the present hard time. Don't we=
igh=20
> down your country anymore with these systems. Cut off your supplier now.=
=20
> Perhaps someday they may be able to rebuild yet. All in good jest, of=20
> course.

I've used Ademco/Honeywell, FBI, DSC, Apex, Moose, Interlogix/GE The only p=
anel that ever gave me more choices in programming than Napco was Apex. But=
 that was too ahead of it's time. As far as I know (now) there is no panel =
on the market that gives an installer all of the choices that Napco does. N=
ow .... I can understand that in 95% of the installations you don't need al=
l those choices so it's likely better for those who are among the programmi=
ng challenged to use the lesser panels and just pass on the complicated ins=
tallation that require timed events, isolated operations, dual interior zon=
es, automated functions,  control of users.

Here's an example. I know it's not something you would probably ever run in=
to but I can set up a panel to arm, and disarm on it's own at different tim=
es of the day on different days of the year, excluding or including holiday=
s and can allow certain users access only on certain days of the year and i=
n the meantime be turning lights or other devices on and off on at certain =
times of the day and days of the year while being able to remote arm and di=
sarm the panel and receive verbal confirmation of open zones or zones in al=
arm condition? Among other things.=20

With that type of control, what can your customer ask you to do that you wo=
uld have to say no to? =20

Now, I could be wrong at this time in history, (because I haven't checked o=
ut any other panels lately) but I do believe that in spite of the fact that=
 the Gemini series Napco panels have been out for maybe 15 or twenty years =
now, they still have programming functions that newer panels manufacturers =
haven't even thought of yet. At this point I think that probably only the H=
AI panels can do more, but ..... as I say, at this point in time,  I haven'=
t and probably wouldn't check out another manufacturer because I have every=
thing I need in the Napco panels now. =20

This is not to say that other equipment isn't worthy it's just that I figur=
e it's best to use equipment that can do whatever I EVER want it to do when=
 I need it, rather than have to pass up a job or have to say no to anything=
 a client ever asks me to do.=20

Now, aside from that, I know that with equipment out there installed for ov=
er 35 years and still working it is a testimony to it's longevity. I would =
place it top of the line as far as hardyness compared to at least DSC and H=
oneywell that I consider being made out of tinfoil and compressed mud. When=
 I pick up a DSC panel, it's like picking up a piece of cardboard inside a =
tin can. Cheap plastic on the transmitters. Can't even open them without ma=
rring the covers. cheap, cheap, cheap. And Honeywell is not that far behind=
 in quality. At the least, Napco is still using fiberglass printed circuit =
boards and 16 gage steel cabinets. I've noticed that the components seem to=
 be getting cheaper looking but nothing compared to the crap that DSC uses.=
 On the quality of parts alone it's enough to dissuade anyone with a sense =
of wanting to offer quality equipment to their clients. However I'm sure th=
at most use it because it's cheaper than all the rest.=20

As far as usability, I have no problems whatsoever in teaching my level of =
client how to use Napco systems. I do high level residential and very littl=
e commercial so maybe it's an end user quality issue. I can certainly under=
stand that Joe's Pizza would not know how to or even need to know how to op=
erate a Napco 9600. Which is why there is the or P801 that can be programme=
d in about 10 minutes from the keypad and a young chimpanzee could be taugh=
t to use it.=20

I'm sure your experience with Napco was traumatic as most people find their=
 programming rather arduous. But, like most things, once you learn it, it's=
 a piece of cake. Also, once learning to program Napco systems, I can progr=
am any panel just by looing at the manual for a few minutes.  And, unlike H=
oneywell,  Napco manuals are in pretty logical order once you have the codi=
ng procedure down. In the past, Napco keypad programming was a bear for mos=
t people but now with the PCD programming application it's easy as can be. =
I very seldom have(or will try) to keypad program. It's just too easy to ho=
okup the laptop. And now ..... using the Starlink GSM radios,  .......  rem=
ote programming takes place in a flash. No waiting for handshakes and kisso=
ffs. Once you make connection, it's like 10 seconds to do a down/upload. CO=
OOL!! =20

It's all in the choice, the level of installations we do and the experience=
s each of us has that leans us towards our equipment of choice. Each of us =
having reason to rationalize our choices. Every piece of equipment out ther=
e has it's pluses and negatives. We can only hope that everyone makes the b=
est choices for themselves and their clients.