Re: Any skilled residential installers in New River, AZ area?

[Jim <alarminex@xxxxxxx>]

On Jan 22, 5:11=A0pm, "Just Looking" <nos...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> The installation of most residential alarm or CCTV systems does require a
> certain skillset. I believe a lot of it has to do with having the desire =
to
> good job in the first place. If your motto is "don't give a shit, never d=
id,
> never will" skill isn't the problem, attitude is.
> Knowing how to run a wire from point 'A to point 'B' without it showing i=
s a
> skill to be sure. To be able to cut and caulk around a window frame requi=
res
> not only the skill, but the tools, materials and the time to do it. If th=
e
> salesman has not bid the job correctly, none of that is likely to happen.=
 I
> think everyone in the industry knows that many segments of the residentia=
l
> market have been whored to a fare-thee-well. Even now companies with a
> tremendous amount of recurring monthly revenue derived from the residenti=
al
> market are struggling with their balance sheets, and others have already
> gone under with the collapse of the housing industry.
>
> Migrating from residential to commercial installations happens almost
> naturally over time if you stay in the industry long enough. It isn't a
> matter of who is smarter or better from that standpoint. If you like to d=
o a
> good job but can't make a living doing it then what's the point? It is
> almost counter intuitive that jobs bid in the hundreds or thousands of
> dollars get more scrutiny on the numbers than jobs in the hundreds of
> thousands or millions do. Commercial jobs require wiring knowledge too.
> Sloppy installations aren't the exclusive domain of the residential marke=
t.
> How many time have you seen a ceiling grid sagging under the weight of to=
o
> many wires, many simply abandoned over time; going through walls and such
> with no thought of proper placement of fire pillows or fire stop caulk. H=
ell
> I seen holes sawed in fire walls that one could crawl through easily, put
> there for that very purpose by some ignorant wire pulling mule. The IT bo=
ys
> that aren't doing their work as a proper structured cabling vendor can an=
d
> do create workplace wiring nightmares that rival anything one can find in
> the nastiest residential jobs out there.
>
> I would say that in the end a commercial installer does know more about t=
he
> products on offer from the industry as a whole than a residential install=
er
> simply because the commercial installer sees more variety of products and
> applications, in greater numbers, and in a wide variety of venues. Having=
 or
> acquiring that knowledge doesn't necessarily mean in absolute terms one
> installer is smarter or better that the other, they're merely different i=
n
> my opinion. In the end I think it would be far easier for a commercial
> installer to do a residential installation that it would be for a
> residential installer to do a commercial job. The residential installer
> might know off hand how to get a wire to the right spot, but would he kno=
w
> the right type of wire to run in the first place? Most commercial
> installations have a lot of CAD drawings and paperwork associated with th=
em.
> Residential jobs are more of an ad hoc affair. If there is one thing I mi=
ss
> about doing almost exclusive residential and small commercial jobs is the
> luxury of not having to have a set of CAD drawings and the hassle of
> creating as built drawings when the work is completed. That said I don't
> think I could ever go back to the world of alarm systems that are nearly =
all
> the same, like fast food joint hamburgers, where instead of the hamburger
> it's three doors and a motion, indoor siren, keypad and a FOB. Use 2gig o=
r
> SimonXT for that and you don't really need no stinkin' wires in the first
> place, with the likes of the SimonXT you don't even need wires for the CC=
TV
> camera, or access doors for that matter! If you're a residential alarm
> installer and all you've ever put in was one of these two types of panels=
,
> you probably never learned anything about running wires and most likely
> never will.
>
> When was the last time you coughed up a good sized lung oyster that is
> mostly just a round ball of pink 'itchulation'? Well it has been too long=
!
>

I still think you're talking .... from your own perspective and
experience that you have in the trade.

Years ago, I had to make a decision if I wanted to grow into a large
corporation or not. I decided not. I had worked in sales, marketing
and training for multimillion dollar companies and therefore I didn't
want to grow MY business into a state that would require me to stop
installing  ..... putting me back into administration and management
again. I had traded my 3 piece suit in, because I couldn't stand the
phoney-ness of the people in big business. It's all glitz, smoke and
mirrors and that's just not me. And ...... I had seen some of my peers
do exactly that. Go from installing systems to wearing a suit and
never doing what they loved to do that got them into the business in
the first place.

Which, of course, from that point of me deciding to stay
"small" .....  forward, I turned down all offers in the large
commercial realm and I, being the sort that's got to know everything
about every thing, I diversified and did more and more high end
residential. You seem to indicate that residential is repetitive in
your memory.

My experience is that every house is a new puzzle to figure out. Since
I do so many different types of things, and I do mostly large homes, I
get to "play with the rich peoples toys". I could understand your
thinking residential installs are all the same if one is just doing
the wireless "quickies". No thought or planning involved there. I have
some projects that go on for years. As the technology changes they
want all the latests gadgets. What's going on right now, is upgrade to
3D TV's even though the present TV is less than 3 years old. Touch
screens are all the rage. IPod, Ipad, app's. One customer had a new
swimming pool this year .... they need music at the pool and be able
to tap into the music in their computer and remote control it from
poolside. Problem is ..... their pool is 350feet away from the house,
on the edge of the property, which borders on the bay.

CCTV cameras are viewed on 7" touch screens in the home (and
remotely), along with RSS Feeds of news and stock reports. Door bell
that rings Westminister chimes through the $20,000.00 whole house
audio system and if no one picks up the phone to answer the door, it
rings their cell phone while she's at the soccer game with the kids,
or wherever. And so on. I install $30/$60,000.00 home theater systems
and automated whole house controlled lighting. Cat 5e (and wireless
network) wiring to all A/V locations and anyplace else required. Set
up all networked items.

Of course the above is not typical of all jobs but most security
systems that I do, have at least one other type of system going in
along with it or I'll be called in later to do one or more of the
other things. And ............ I do about 80 to 90% of the actuall
installations ...... by myself.   I do the research, planning, layout,
pulling of wires ..... everything.

Your example of a residential installation is not something that I
would even consider an alarm system in the first place.
So in the words of Crocodile Dundee  "That's not a knife. THIS is a
knife"

Compared to a commercial installer, I would imagine that he's got
people doing things for him because of the scope of the install. You
speak of CAD's and paper work being provided. I would imagine there's
a research and sales department and all the other necessary support
services.  I don't have anyone selling, researching, specifying, doing
drawings, purchasing, installing, troubleshooting or billing my
clients .....  I daresay that it certainly would be a big surprise to
me if you knew of one commercial alarm installer that is capable of
doing the type of system that I do, simply because he does he knows
how to do commercial installs.

In past years, I've come accross a few residential systems that had
been installed by "commercial" installers too. They usually don't have
a clue about snaking wires and it doesn't seem as if  the thought ever
enters their mind to actually "hide" a contact on a door or window.
I've seen them use the old twiisted pair wire, don't know how to aim a
motion detector in a residential scenario and the motion detector is
as big as a refrigerator. I guess the reasoning being .... that if
it's good enough to work in a commercial job, it's REALLY got to do a
good job in a residential job.  Keypad mounted at the normal height
even though the client is only 5' 2' and uses bifocals. Push button
switches in the sill at the bottom of a double hung window. I can't
remember all of them, but if it wasn't so sad, it would be funny from
a residential installers point of view, to see a residential system
that been installed by a commercial installer. As, I'm sure the
reverse would be true also, under the opposite conditions.

So, I think it's just as always. A person doesn't know what they don't
know and there's a tendancy by some people to think that due to the
complication of their job that they must be better/have greater
insight/ better talents ... etc, etc  than someone in another aspect
of the trade. To me ....... each just knows something different and
each knows what they know to different degrees, which is usually
dependent upon the individual.