Re: Any skilled residential installers in New River, AZ area?

[JoeRaisin <joeraisin2001@xxxxxxxxx>]

On 1/22/2012 1:09 PM, Jim wrote:
> On Jan 22, 10:59 am, Robert Macy<robert.a.m...@xxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
>> On Jan 21, 5:56 pm, JoeRaisin<joeraisin2...@xxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 1/21/2012 4:38 PM, Just Looking wrote:
>>
>>>>> Not sure why you think I would not "...even recognize..." a skilled
>>>>> installer, though.
>>
>>>> A skilled installer would generally migrate to a higher paid position. I
>>>> always think of residential installers in the alarm trade as being at
>>>> the lower end of the skill spectrum. Even companies like ADT manage
>>>> their sales and installations staff in a tiered fashion of compensation
>>>> where residential is at the bottom of the food chain. When I think of a
>>>> skilled CCTV installer I think of one that could not only install but
>>>> configure many types of CCTV systems; like ones with hosted video
>>>> recording and a different CIF and frame rate not only for each camera,
>>>> but each storage "bucket". The installer could calculate the necessary
>>>> retention time for a NAS or SAN and configure same into an network. The
>>>> installer would recognize and be able to configure a layer 2 or 3 switch
>>>> or carve out his own VLAN. The installer would be able to set up
>>>> analytics on each camera or encoder or separate analytics server,
>>>> including all inputs, outputs for any metadata, not to mention linking
>>>> the video to the access control system or POS system.
>>>> What you seem to be looking for is not a skilled installer and probably
>>>> would not have need of one if your market target is 4 residential cameras.
>>
>>> Ya know, that's one of the thing about this industry that sort of ticks
>>> me off.
>>
>>> There's more to skill than being able to program
>>
>>> When it comes to running/fishing wire, at least, IMHO residential
>>> requires much more skill... well... for those that aren't hacks.
>>> Problem is, the guys that prove they give a shit end up doing commercial
>>> and the new guys are on the resi jobs stapling the keypad wire down the
>>> wall and drilling straight down through the baseboard.
>>
>>> I know guys who can make a dvr or card access panel dance a friggin
>>> rumba while integrating everything with the fire and BA - but they
>>> couldn't run a wire between their elbow and their shoulder without it
>>> looking like holy crap.
>>
>>> Too much of the resi market is slapping up wireless with double sided
>>> tape and pluggin the Lynx into the phone jack so they can get out of
>>> there and go screw up someone else's drywall.
>>
>>> Where I am now, we haven't done any resi (tho that may change) but the
>>> last place had the policy that if it looked like a fish was gonna take
>>> more than ten or twenty minutes, go wireless.
>>
>>> At the satellite place, they didn't want us to fish anything.
>>
>>> That just takes a lot of the fun and challenge out of the job - I know,
>>> my way takes a lot of the money out of it.  But if I had been anything
>>> other than an abject failure at drumming up work, that's how I would
>>> have done it.
>>
>>> To me - nothing better than a clean install - and that, imho, takes skill.
>>
>> EXACTLY!
>>
>> And, THAT is the skill set I'm looking for!
>>
>> I can connect. I can program. I can set it up. I can even envision how
>> to install, but the 'mechanics' [to me] to do it right, require a lot
>> of SKILL.-
>
> Exactly.
>
> However, I think it would be pretty rare to find a Satillite TV
> installer that would know not to drill into and mount a CCTV camera on
> stucco. My guess is that they mount their dishes on it "all the time".
> Not because they know it will work ...... but..... by their
> reasoning .....  because it hasn't worked too few times, so it's
> acceptable.
>
> If YOU don't know and THEY don't know the risks ..... and it
> works ..... you're both happy. If it doesn't work ..... YOU'RE the
> only one who's "unhappy" cuz the problem is not likely going to show
> up, for a long time afterwards.
>
> When I see the poor quality workmanship on some takeover jobs I always
> wonder how a client could live with it. Wires stapled along window
> molding. Crooked keypads and door and window contacts. And then, of
> course, there's all the unprofessional workmanship that the client
> CAN'T see, behind the walls and in attics and basements. But, the
> client very, very rarely actually knows what is acceptable and what is
> not, so they just think that everyone would need to do this to their
> home and that they have to live with it as a sacrafice to have the
> security system installed. How is one to judge if they haven't been
> able to compare?

Now we're back to "free" systems and you get what you pay for.

I company I worked for bought out some little guy who, legend has it,
didn't own anything longer than a four ft bit.  Which is why every now
and then I would do a service at a house with the keypads at three ft.

His 'monitoring' was having the panels call a pager he carried all the
time.