Re: Outdoor CCTV problem

[Jim <alarminex@xxxxxxx>]

On Nov 22, 10:09=A0am, Robert Macy <robert.a.m...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Nov 21, 10:30=A0am, Jim <alarmi...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 19, 9:11=A0am, Robert Macy <robert.a.m...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 18, 8:22=A0pm, G. Morgan <sealte...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > > > Robert Macy Wrote:
>
> > > > >hard to believe that while watchiing a Perry Mason episode, the
> > > > >character was heard to say, "...and he took that $6,000 to build a
> > > > >beach house in Malibu..." =A0have times changed, or what?
>
> > > > Before my time, that's for sure.
>
> > > > >get a network? uh, this house is wired for CAT5 is that the type o=
f
> > > > >network? what electronic box to plug in, or are these all 'plug n
> > > > >play'?
>
> > > > What I mean is the network functionality is one of the neatest feat=
ures.
> > > > You just plug it into an empty port on your router. People love bei=
ng
> > > > able to pull up their cams from work, home (for a commercial job),
> > > > vacation, whatever.. =A0 A web browser is all you need, no iDevices
> > > > necessary.
>
> > > > --
>
> > > > "I don't like to discriminate against terrorists based on nationali=
ty.
> > > > If you declare war on the United States and you want to kill us,
> > > > We're going to kill you first, period."
>
> > > > October 19, 2011 - Ali Soufan =A0(Colbert Report)
>
> > > Perry Mason RERUNS!
>
> > > This would be a 'local' network only. =A0I purposely keep to dial up
> > > modem speeds. =A0Three times before a virus could get downloaded I've
> > > had time to physically pull the connection.
>
> > Well, ...... I guess that answers a lot of potential questions.
>
> > So .... let's see ..... You want cameras and technology available here
> > in the 21st century, yet you're basing it on a 20th century
> > infrastructure.
>
> > Have you ever heard of a virus protection application, like Norton and
> > 50 more on the market and a router with security settings? =A0It makes
> > for very comfortable use of your computer, on line. You'll no longer
> > have to type with one hand while holding the wire to you modem in your
> > other.
>
> > Sounds like you'd like to get the most that you can with the least
> > amount of investment, which is fine. But come on! .....
> > There are just some things that you have to bite the bullet on if you
> > want this to work out. When you're done with your project are you
> > going to say, this is great .... or ..... this is good enough?
>
> > Don't agonize over the cost and nickel and dime the job to
> > inadequacy. =A0After you've done a good job and the system works great,
> > the cost fades away. If you don't do a good job, it will live with you
> > every time you look at it and you'll say " I shouda done this or
> > that ..... forever.
>
> > > But the concept of 'plug n play' in a macro system is intriguing.-
>
> LOL =A0at the image of holding a cable in one hand, cruising the 'net,
> with beads of sweat forming.
>
> However, when I used to have all those whiz bang antiviral programs I
> had MORE sweat beads wandering what they were going to do next to
> whatever I was working on - even while off line! =A0Plus, the S L O W N
> E S S . . . .
>
> The concern for antivirus software being installed reminds me of an
> incident with one of our WinXP systems. [Rarely turned on, rarely
> used] whcih ran EXTREMELY slowly, sometimes to the point of appearing
> hung up, especially when starting to connect to the internet. =A0So I
> went to the WinXP usenet group, asked for help, and someone named,
> Papa Bear, jumped in and I was given dire warnings about the malware
> slowing down the XP, so upload to "??" website and someone will look
> through the morass of software crap Microsoft deems necessary to run.
> First thing someone did was start tirading about lack of antivirus
> software, get that installed THEN come back and we can help. Ok
> installed all kinds of antivirus software, in and around XP running
> slowly, and went back. =A0Uploaded what was running, waited, and waited,
> and waited, and still ony kept getting tirades aobut malware slowing
> down the XP and how MUST protect against that. =A0 Offline, the XP was
> still miring itself down, although no detectable malware, nor
> viruses. =A0So, months went by, XP still running slowly, and had to put
> up with people posturing about the impoprtance of anti malware/
> viruses. Ok hat in hand, because, XP still running like molassess. =A0In
> desparation, went to the Win98 usenet group, apologized for being Off
> Topic, and instantly got three repliess within the hour. which said go
> to the registry, look for "..." and kill it, then go to the something
> soemwherelese, and kill it permanently. =A0I did that and ZIP! the XP
> was fast, except for all the bloated code from the antimalware, so
> removed all that, cleaned it all out and now the XP acts as fast as it
> should, a nice slow computer. =A0So my conclusion WinXP is its own
> malware/virus
>
> Back to Security System costs, buy right and be done with it. =A0Also, I
> found the best way to do a security system was to ignore everything
> being hyped, and simply define "what EXACTLY am I trying to do." That
> way, when the system is assembled, and does what I wanted it to do,
> I'M DONE! ..and by definition it is a great system, since it does what
> I want.
>
> So far the 'professional' rules appear to be
> hardwire, wireless is NOT 100% reliable yet
> use motion detectors INTENDED for outside use.
> provide light
>
> I think the base line for a GREAT system is to sit down and figure out
> the level of false alarms I can stand, and if I could accept a single
> missed positive =A0 Exactly, what type of alarm indicator do I want?
> Bell, lights, silent alert with quiet recording?
>
> make a list of needs: is detection enough, or do I want to view what
> caused the detected intrusion? yes
> 1. go stand and look, pretend you're a camera, what are you trying to
> see? when - dark, light, into sun? Use digital camera to get a
> 'flavor' for what a camera sees.
> then decide camera, lense, distance, field of view, weather the camera
> will be submitted to, lighting
> 2. what to do with the screen shots
> how often 'review' info, amount of storage, type of storage
> 3. how to view
> real time/post production, separate monitors, or insert in TV system,
> etc =A0this function appears to be where most of the whiz bang hype
> lurks now.
>
> Did I miss anything? =A0Something I should also consider?-

You seem to have the process down pretty good. I guess that's what I
do when I evaluate/spec a system but I've never written down the
process.

However ............ that all looks good on paper and reads like a
report that your boss asked you to write up. You can obtain a large
amount of information from that process but interpreting it into
practical predictable end results isn't possible without experience in
actually doing it . How much light? How much storeage? How much
resolution? Can you determine exactly where you can mount the cameras
as compared to where you would like to mount them? Where do you
position additional lighting and how bright? If the light is only
going to come on when there is movement and you have day night cameras
you likely will have blank spots in the recording when the light comes
on while the camera adjusts likely blanking out what you wanted to
see. Then, if you have day night cameras you will still only have a
black and white picture at night, as the cameras take time to sense
that there's enough light to switch to color. Where does the sun rise
and set? ie. Will the sun ever shine directly into a cameras lens?
Will car headlights, or your house lights or neighbors lighting ever
be a problem causing the camera to blank out due to sudden appearance
of light at night or cause the camera irus to close down from a steady
source of light, like yours or your neighbors porch light? Problems
inherent with some low priced cameras (lens reflections, infrared
glare) Wait till you see how much glare an evergreen tree gives you in
infra red light conditions) , monitors (poor resolution and color
reproduction)  and DVR's not high enough frame rate, or ability to
have high frame rate on all channels simultaneously or not able to
view and record at the same time .... If you are going to be recording
during alarm condition only, there's no way you can accurately predict
how much disk space you will need. And there's more ...........

As you can see, each time I respond there's more and more and more
that you have not and cannot know to consider. I've learned and
learned the hard way. If you're going to install a CCTV system, do it
right. I will probably turn away more than half the inquires I get
about installing CCTV systems. Mainly because people want to do it
cheap. There are many companies out there who will do it cheap and the
customer is likely happy with what they;ve got ..... because they
don't know any better until they see a good system to compare what
they have.  I spend about a half hour or so telling the potential
customer what he's NOT going to get. If they're still with me at the
end that, then when I tell them what it's going to cost to do it
right ..... another percentage will fall away. I won't provide and
install a cheap  or minimal system that I have to back. If they want
to buy cheap equipment and have me install it .... I'll do that, but
they also have to pay me to take it down and reinstall it when it
doesn't do what they thought it would or wanted it to do. Get all
equipment with all the bells and whistles even if you don't use half
of them ...... because you just can't predict what you're going to run
into and if  you don't have the built in features to handle it, .....
as an expert, that's not something I can afford.