Re: Commercial Burg

["ABLE1" <royboynospam@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

> "Jim" <alarminex@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:b6053e1f-d8aa-4d20-a6d1-4414dec5ea69@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Hi Les,
>
> I haven't investigated or been interested in UL for a long time.
> However I just thought I'd pass this on, just in case........
> Years ago, in order to install UL commercial systems, it wasn't only
> the equipment and the method of installation that was required but in
> order to qualify, any company wanting to install UL commercial had to
> install (I think) 5 systems using all the  protocols and equipment and
> then have them inspected ( for a fee) by UL) These systems could not
> be sold as UL certified so you just had to install them for someone at
> your expense for the additional cost of parts and procedures. Once the
> all those installation passed your company was certified and then you
> could obtain a certificate for subsequent UL installs and UL would
> come out occasionally and inspect. You had to pay for each job
> cetification and for each inspection and if they found something wrong
> and they had to come back, you had to pay another inspection fee. The
> more times they found something wrong the harder they were on you the
> next time.
>
> All this is from 20 or more years ago. But ..... on the other hand,  I
> know that within the last few years, UL had quite a shake up and was
> even attending alarm association meetings ( imagine that !!  ) across
> the country trying to tell everyone how they had streamlined their
> operation.  So it's quite possible that the requirements are different
> now.
>
> However, it sure would be hell if you installed this system meeting
> all the physical requirements and then called for a UL inspector to
> find out they wouldn't come because you hadn't qualified.
>
> I ultimately decided not to go that route because of the bureacratic
> BS that accompanies any agency like UL and, in my case, the customers
> typically decided they'd rather pay the increased insurace premieums
> then pay the thousands of dollars for the UL system. They just had me
> put in an extra secure system for a much lower price. UL's recent
> decline (in my opinion) is long overdue. At one time they were the
> only agency of importance surviving from back in the 30's I think.
> They formed a legion with insurance companys, who made them the souce
> of all requirements for alarm systems ( and foolishly many still do,
> because it's easier then them having to look for another standards
> lab). Since there was no competition back then, UL became over
> indulged with self importance and never updated their standards,
> listing and requirements to meet the changing times and technology.
> It's only been in recent years, since other labs and listing agencies
> have become prominent that they woke up and noticed that they were
> losing business and they got rid of the people who kept it operating
> back in time.
>
> Something  you may want to do when you make the quote, is to make up a
> seperate quote for a system that will do close to the same thing as
> the UL system but using normal equipment and protcols. I found that
> most alarm companys who look to do UL systems are doing it for the rip
> off prices they can get and so would not even consider offering a
> lesser system. So doing this just may get you the job.  In the case of
> a jewlery store, if they take all the proper physical and operating
> precautions that they should take anyway, an extra good normal
> installation with back up and some double detection just might make
> them feel comfortable enough to forgo the reduction in insurance
> premiums. Suggest that they compare the difference. Depends on the
> size of the business, the value of their product and the reduction of
> premium.
>
> Hope this helps.


Very good point and it would seem the customer has been thinking this way.
When I handed him my proposal on Friday he mentioned that the cost of the
system was higher that he could afford and was considering not doing a UL
system.  He was going to contact his Ins. Co. and see what the premium would
be for a lesser (normal) system.

There are other issues going on here and I may be well advised to walk away.
I easily have 8 hours into inspection, discussions, study and learning,
phone calls, pricing, proposal writing, etc. etc.  I could have been doing
other things with that time.  And so it
goes.................................

Thanks for all the input.  I now have a better knowledge base on this type
of application and will say NO much quicker in the future.

Have a good rest of the weekend.

Les