Re: Commercial Burg

["ABLE1" <royboynospam@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

"Jim" <alarminex@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:b6053e1f-d8aa-4d20-a6d1-4414dec5ea69@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Feb 1, 11:07 pm, "ABLE1" <royboynos...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have been asked to install an alarm system in a jewelry store. The
> insurance company said that the system panel needs to the following.
>
> UL Listed Commercial Burg Mercantile Grade with Attack Kit.
>
> So far I have found that the Vista 128-BPE we/ Vista ULKT seems to fit the
> bill.
>
> My question here is there any other choices out there to fit the bill??
>
> And what other tricks or things do I need to consider??
>
> I am having a feeling that my choices are very slim.
>
> Thanks to all for the assist.
>
> Les

Hi Les,

I haven't investigated or been interested in UL for a long time.
However I just thought I'd pass this on, just in case........
Years ago, in order to install UL commercial systems, it wasn't only
the equipment and the method of installation that was required but in
order to qualify, any company wanting to install UL commercial had to
install (I think) 5 systems using all the  protocols and equipment and
then have them inspected ( for a fee) by UL) These systems could not
be sold as UL certified so you just had to install them for someone at
your expense for the additional cost of parts and procedures. Once the
all those installation passed your company was certified and then you
could obtain a certificate for subsequent UL installs and UL would
come out occasionally and inspect. You had to pay for each job
cetification and for each inspection and if they found something wrong
and they had to come back, you had to pay another inspection fee. The
more times they found something wrong the harder they were on you the
next time.

All this is from 20 or more years ago. But ..... on the other hand,  I
know that within the last few years, UL had quite a shake up and was
even attending alarm association meetings ( imagine that !!  ) across
the country trying to tell everyone how they had streamlined their
operation.  So it's quite possible that the requirements are different
now.

However, it sure would be hell if you installed this system meeting
all the physical requirements and then called for a UL inspector to
find out they wouldn't come because you hadn't qualified.

I ultimately decided not to go that route because of the bureacratic
BS that accompanies any agency like UL and, in my case, the customers
typically decided they'd rather pay the increased insurace premieums
then pay the thousands of dollars for the UL system. They just had me
put in an extra secure system for a much lower price. UL's recent
decline (in my opinion) is long overdue. At one time they were the
only agency of importance surviving from back in the 30's I think.
They formed a legion with insurance companys, who made them the souce
of all requirements for alarm systems ( and foolishly many still do,
because it's easier then them having to look for another standards
lab). Since there was no competition back then, UL became over
indulged with self importance and never updated their standards,
listing and requirements to meet the changing times and technology.
It's only been in recent years, since other labs and listing agencies
have become prominent that they woke up and noticed that they were
losing business and they got rid of the people who kept it operating
back in time.

Something  you may want to do when you make the quote, is to make up a
seperate quote for a system that will do close to the same thing as
the UL system but using normal equipment and protcols. I found that
most alarm companys who look to do UL systems are doing it for the rip
off prices they can get and so would not even consider offering a
lesser system. So doing this just may get you the job.  In the case of
a jewlery store, if they take all the proper physical and operating
precautions that they should take anyway, an extra good normal
installation with back up and some double detection just might make
them feel comfortable enough to forgo the reduction in insurance
premiums. Suggest that they compare the difference. Depends on the
size of the business, the value of their product and the reduction of
premium.

Hope this helps.


Thanks, very good input.

Les