Re: Some people never learn

[Jim <alarminex@xxxxxxx>]

On Aug 12, 6:09=A0pm, nick markowitz <nmarkow...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Aug 12, 12:55=A0pm, Jim <alarmi...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 12, 12:27=A0pm, "Bob La Londe" <nos...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > > "nick markowitz" <nmarkow...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>
> > >news:dffb7bde-4062-46ab-ab39-92513475118d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=
...
>
> > > > On Aug 11, 7:03 pm, Jim Rojas <jro...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > >> nick markowitz wrote:
> > > >> > One of my institutional customers got a grant and insisted on us=
ing a
> > > >> > card access manufacturer I do not deal with so they hired a comp=
uter
> > > >> > place to install 7 door system and all 7 doors fail to meet ICC-
> > > >> > NEC70 and in addition fail to meet the PA-DPW codes for resident=
ial
> > > >> > programs.
> > > >> > needless to say I get a call today after they get failed and ask=
ed if
> > > >> > i can fix it.
> > > >> > yes I tell them whole thing needs ripped out and redone properly=
 as
> > > >> > they have violated all these different rules and there workman s=
hip is
> > > >> > terrible.
> > > >> > So now it is going to cost them twice.
> > > >> > Some people never learn.
>
> > > >> I use to have that happen to me on large fire alarm & access contr=
ol
> > > >> jobs...electrical contractor outbids me, then has the nerve to cal=
l me
> > > >> to clean up his mess. Yes, it does cost them at least twice the am=
ount.
>
> > > >> Jim Rojas
> > > >> Technical Manuals Online!http://www.tech-man.com
> > > >> 8002 Cornwall Lane
> > > >> Tampa, FL 33615-4604
> > > >> 813-884-6335
>
> > > > I do not know why contractors fail to call and check things out ahe=
ad
> > > > of time with the AHJ and always think they can getaway with somethi=
ng
> > > > or deal with it later attitude.
> > > > I get flack from other alarm dealers all the time because i design =
a
> > > > system and it gets passed 1st time and AHJ will not let other compa=
ny
> > > > do it and they get all mad because they failed to read and understa=
nd
> > > > the code and they end up redoing it 2-3 times before they get it
> > > > right.
> > > > Then again some company's should just not be in business period.
>
> > > Funny, here in Az an electrical engineer must design any "required"
> > > commercial fire alarm system, except that some AHJs will allow a basi=
c
> > > approved panel with a simple plan for sprinkler monitoring only.
>
> > > I get clients all the time who just want me to throw something togeth=
er.
>
> > > I would kinda like the engineer required approach if it worked. =A0Of=
ten the
> > > electrical engineers throw in enough "contractor will specify" or
> > > "contractor will change to meet code" type language to basically make=
 their
> > > original drawing suspect at best. =A0One set of plans I got said some=
thing to
> > > the affect, "It is the contractors responsibility to meet all applica=
ble
> > > codes and make changes to the plans as needed to do so." =A0Another t=
he
> > > engineer actually sent somebody to survey a site that had an ancient =
fire
> > > system that had not worked since the dawn of resistance loop meter pa=
nels.
> > > They did a nice detail drawing of the 10% of the building where there=
 was
> > > some remodeling and new construction going on, and then there was thi=
s big
> > > cloud on the rest of the main floor, the other two floors and the bas=
ement
> > > that just said, "connect existing system." =A0The existing system was=
 mostly
> > > Ademco 597 radioactives strung together with lamp cord. =A0And they h=
ad all
> > > been painted over. =A0It made it impossible to bid legally or honestl=
y.-
>
> > These are the types of things, along with dealing with the " I don't
> > know .... cover their ass, power flaunting " attitudes of the Fire
> > Marshals and their lackies, that I opted out of the installation of
> > commercial fire. I really don't have the time nor patience to deal
> > with them. I can make much more money with less time spent .....
> > elsewhere.
>
> > When I think of dealing with the Fire Marshals and their buracracy,
> > I'm reminded of something that someone who used to work as an engineer
> > at a major military aircraft company told me. "When the weight of the
> > paperwork equals the weight of the aircraft, it's time to ship the
> > plane"
>
> All in all once you learn the codes etc. its not that big of a deal to
> do commercail fire.
> most of the old lackey AHJ are now gone with the ICC in place.
> But one thing I always do is check with AHJ =A0before bidding and or
> starting any thing it makes the job go so much easier so if you do hit
> a snag it can be taken care of =A0in an easy manner.
> Some areas there strict and other areas there well not so strict. But
> knowing the code when you meet with the AHJ goes along way towards
> getting a job done and completed on time and cost.-

Well ...... that was just another reason why I got out of it. I knew
the code but they didn't and I STILL had to do it their way.

I don't know if you remember the old Ademco 1011 burglar alarm bell
box ...... but anyway, we had a Fire Marshall in a township in another
area who required that every commercial fire alarm have an Ademco
BURGLAR ALARM bell and box on the outside of the building with a
custom made red sign on it that said FIRE ALARM. The old fashioned
vibrating bells would create all kinds of interference with the
panels. Even after Ademco discontinued the 1011 he still required it
and no one was getting their systems signed off until someone ( months
later) finally convinced him that you couldn't get the product
anymore. Only then were we were allowed to use something else. Then
after that, I saw some companys were putting INSIDE horns on the
outside of the buildings and they were being signed off.

I just don't have the patience to deal with crap like that. I KNOW
WHAT's RIGHT and yet I've got to do what some asshole who doesn't even
know what his job is ..... says???  And he can't be fired???   Not me.
I don't work that way. And I'm not the kind of person who's going to
shmooze up to someone like that, just to get my jobs signed off. I
ultimately told him to shove his stupid rules up his ass ..... got
fined $300.00 for the privlege and ultimately sent him a letter with a
copy to the county legislature, recounting all of the asinine things
he had done and was still doing. All of that just got me the
satisfaction of knowing that there wasn't a damn thing he could do to
me .... anymore. I've seen him twice since then and had fun fliping
him the bird. Every once in a while he sends his lackys to some of the
association meetings and I always succeed in putting them on the spot
about their lack of knowledge about their job or lack of being able to
show that their stupid rules make their jurisdiction any better than
other jurisdictions.

Like now they are saying that they wont accept VoIP as phone lines no
matter what. There are some new areas that are being developed here
that just don't have any communication copper at all. They don't have
an answer except that VoIP is not acceptable and they don't have an
alternative. So now,  all those people who's insurance requie that
they have fire alarms will just have to do ........ what?

And it's that blind,  ..... I don't care what your problems are, these
are the rules that I made up, with no rhyme or reason and you have to
obey them ....... attitude, that pisses me off.