Re: Some people never learn

[Jim <alarminex@xxxxxxx>]

On Aug 12, 12:27=A0pm, "Bob La Londe" <nos...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> "nick markowitz" <nmarkow...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>
> news:dffb7bde-4062-46ab-ab39-92513475118d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 11, 7:03 pm, Jim Rojas <jro...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> nick markowitz wrote:
> >> > One of my institutional customers got a grant and insisted on using =
a
> >> > card access manufacturer I do not deal with so they hired a computer
> >> > place to install 7 door system and all 7 doors fail to meet ICC-
> >> > NEC70 and in addition fail to meet the PA-DPW codes for residential
> >> > programs.
> >> > needless to say I get a call today after they get failed and asked i=
f
> >> > i can fix it.
> >> > yes I tell them whole thing needs ripped out and redone properly as
> >> > they have violated all these different rules and there workman ship =
is
> >> > terrible.
> >> > So now it is going to cost them twice.
> >> > Some people never learn.
>
> >> I use to have that happen to me on large fire alarm & access control
> >> jobs...electrical contractor outbids me, then has the nerve to call me
> >> to clean up his mess. Yes, it does cost them at least twice the amount=
.
>
> >> Jim Rojas
> >> Technical Manuals Online!http://www.tech-man.com
> >> 8002 Cornwall Lane
> >> Tampa, FL 33615-4604
> >> 813-884-6335
>
> > I do not know why contractors fail to call and check things out ahead
> > of time with the AHJ and always think they can getaway with something
> > or deal with it later attitude.
> > I get flack from other alarm dealers all the time because i design a
> > system and it gets passed 1st time and AHJ will not let other company
> > do it and they get all mad because they failed to read and understand
> > the code and they end up redoing it 2-3 times before they get it
> > right.
> > Then again some company's should just not be in business period.
>
> Funny, here in Az an electrical engineer must design any "required"
> commercial fire alarm system, except that some AHJs will allow a basic
> approved panel with a simple plan for sprinkler monitoring only.
>
> I get clients all the time who just want me to throw something together.
>
> I would kinda like the engineer required approach if it worked. =A0Often =
the
> electrical engineers throw in enough "contractor will specify" or
> "contractor will change to meet code" type language to basically make the=
ir
> original drawing suspect at best. =A0One set of plans I got said somethin=
g to
> the affect, "It is the contractors responsibility to meet all applicable
> codes and make changes to the plans as needed to do so." =A0Another the
> engineer actually sent somebody to survey a site that had an ancient fire
> system that had not worked since the dawn of resistance loop meter panels=
.
> They did a nice detail drawing of the 10% of the building where there was
> some remodeling and new construction going on, and then there was this bi=
g
> cloud on the rest of the main floor, the other two floors and the basemen=
t
> that just said, "connect existing system." =A0The existing system was mos=
tly
> Ademco 597 radioactives strung together with lamp cord. =A0And they had a=
ll
> been painted over. =A0It made it impossible to bid legally or honestly.-

These are the types of things, along with dealing with the " I don't
know .... cover their ass, power flaunting " attitudes of the Fire
Marshals and their lackies, that I opted out of the installation of
commercial fire. I really don't have the time nor patience to deal
with them. I can make much more money with less time spent .....
elsewhere.

When I think of dealing with the Fire Marshals and their buracracy,
I'm reminded of something that someone who used to work as an engineer
at a major military aircraft company told me. "When the weight of the
paperwork equals the weight of the aircraft, it's time to ship the
plane"