Re: Napco system questions

["Robert L Bass" <Sales@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

"Frank Olson" wrote:
>
> Yep...  and in those instances where a client needs that, I've sold them on
> the "escort"...

Unfortunately, that would be useless to these clients.  They can't operate
electronic equipment, including phones during Shabos or certain holy days.

> Just dial the panel on any cell phone and you can turn on lights, bypass
> zones, arm the interior...
>
>
>>
>> Napco has advanced scheduling options that DSC doesn't even touch.  I have
>> clients who need to make certain that a house sitter or maid doesn't forget
>> to arm the system when they leave.  Napco allows me to auto-arm after a
>> certain time of day *if* there hasn't been any motion for xx hours.  That's
>> not a "standard" feature but it can be done through a few programming
>> tricks.
>
> Then why mention it???  "Out of the box" features are the topic of this
> discussion...

When did we definew the topic so narrowly?  In any case, this is "out of the
box"  No special hardware is needed -- just knowledge of ways to use the
stuff.

> I could more than likely auto arm a DSC system following those same
> parameters (and with appropriate "option" modules), but why bother?

I doubt you could do it with DSC modules but in answer to the "why bother"
question, it was done because that is what the clients needed.

> If a client is so concerned about whether-or-not the maid remembers to arm
> the system when she leaves, why not provide them with an Escort module which
> would allow them to call the system and perform all the necessary functions.

Although Napco's Wizard IIe will also perform remote control the functions of
the Escort, there's a good reason to automate it.  Most clients don't want to
have to access their systems remotely every time the maid leaves "just to be
sure".  They want to have their protection with the least amount of hassle.
Since Napco provides easy ways to do these things and so much more than
cheap-o competitors, I prefer their stuff.

> In this instance, I don't think it would be in the clients best interests to
> trust the system to "arm" itself anyway.  Would you??

The system can be made more reliable than the maid's or even the client's own
memory.  We had commercial accounts that paid us extra for "supervised"
opening and closing protection.  For the benefit of others who may not know,
that means not just sending reports but responding if a system isn't armed by
the client's designated time each night.  By programming the systems to
auto-arm we could be certain the system would be armed.  The backup, of
course, was that our CS software would notify our operator if for any reason
the system did not arm.  This meant far fewer late night calls to rouse a
sleepy client to go down to arm his store or office system.  We could also
remotely arm using Napco's software but auto-arming saved the client money and
enhanced the value of services we provided.

>> Remember when I told you about the Orthodox Jewish homes I protected in CT?
>> They needed a system that would not cause motion detector LEDs or relays to
>> trip during holiday periods and weekly Shabos hours.  With Napco I can
>> disarm the system, power down the motion and glass break detectors, re-arm
>> the system without the interior detection and, in the morning, bypass the
>> "Shabos door" for a specific time slot so the family can leave for the
>> synagogue.  At the end of Shabos (sunset), I can disarm, power up tthe
>> detectors and, if needed re-arm the system.  Try doing any of that with a
>> DSC system.
>
> Is that a challenge??  :-)

Perhaps.  :^)

> Napco can't do all those things "out of the box".

Sure it can.  You just need to program the system properly.  Systems which
controlled power used a standard Napco module, the RB3008.  In many Orthodox
homes the clients chose not to even use motion or glass break detectors.  For
those apps not even the RB3008 was needed.  However, DSC couldn't do this with
or without any DSC modules.

> You'll need to program a lot of relays.  DSC's 1864 has four programmable
> outputs "on board".

Try programming those relays to fire every Friday at 4:45 pm and release every
Saturday at 6:30 pm or some such time, if and only if the system is disarmed.
Try getting DSC to disarm, power down motions, re-arm while auto-bypassing
those motion detectors and then "undo" the same sequence at the end of a 2- or
3-day holiday.  It just can't be done using DSC hardware.

> If you add the supervised power supply (something I think you'll need with
> the size of the systems you're talking about), you'll get another four on
> top of that.

Napco has enough power to do it without adding the power supply.  However, in
cases where it is needed, they make a very powerful add-on unit.

> The 1864 has event timers as well.

Some of our clients asked us to program our systems to do specific things on
the first Friday of a given month.  Others needed things done on the *last*
Wednesday, etc.  Try programming that with DSC.

> I don't think it would be all that difficult for me to set up a DSC system
> with the same parameters as your Napco stuff.

OK, consider this a challenge then.  You can do it "virtually" (no hardware
purchase required).  Just tell me which DSC modules you would use and how you
would program the DSC system to do what I've described.  Oh, by the way, we
also had to perform a little extra service several times a year.  Because
sunset changes a little every day, we had to make the schedules flexible.
Several times a year we would change the start times of each sequence.  At the
beginning of each year we would enter that year's Yom Tov dates.  The Jewish
calendar is different from Ours so the dates of important holidays change each
year, just like Easter (Passover) does for Christians.

> Yes... but Napco's significantly more expensive (and harder to keypad
> program).

Napco's low end panels, which are equivalent to DSC's mid-range stuff, compete
well price-wise.  As I mentioned earlier, this whole keypad programming thing
is a non-issue for me since I teach DIYers to use the software.  I've rarely
run across anyone who couldn't use Napco's software with a few minutes of
phone support.

> Ditto with DSC.  Up to eight partitions.

Same with Napco, except setting up the partitioning is a snap.

>>> For the money (cheap), they had all the stuff the "big boys" offered (and
>>> sometimes more)...
>>
>> Compared to Honeywell, true.  But DSC doesn't beat Napco for the price or
>> the features.
>
> I beg to differ.  Napco is significantly more expensive here (in Canada).

No need to beg.  I have no idea what dealers pay for Napco in Canada.  I know
what I sell it for and we get a few Canadian orders every so often.  I try to
discourage it though, as it's a PITA dealing with UPS' cross-border rip-of...
er, policies.

> And I haven't needed extra options...  For those clients that do, I'd prefer
> Ademco's products over Napco's.

I suspect that's mainly because you have more experience with Honeywell (nee:
Ademco) than with Napco.  As I said to Jim, a lot of "preference" is what
we've become accustomed to using.  I realize that applies to me as well.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

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