Re: Estou aqui no Recife, Brasil

[JoeRaisin <JoeRaisin@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

RLB wrote:
> On Aug 13, 12:47 pm, mleuck <m.le...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> On Aug 13, 8:10 am, RLB <sa...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Aug 12, 11:00 pm, mleuck <m.le...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> On Aug 12, 7:27 am, RLB <sa...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> On Aug 12, 12:02 am, Frank Olson
>>>>> <use_the_email_li...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>> RLB wrote:
>>>>>>> On Aug 7, 10:58 pm, G. Morgan <usenet_ab...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>> mleuck wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Does your GF know about your hand?
>>>>>>>> Does your BF know about your gonorrhea?
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Man is the only animal that laughs and weeps, for he is the only animal that is struck with the difference between what things are and what they ought to be.
>>>>>>>>   - William Hazlitt
>>>>>>> We changed our plans and instead of the bach (too much rain) we drove
>>>>>>> about 300km up BR101 to Natal. Were staying (me, GF and another girl)
>>>>>>> in a Poussada a block from Praia Ponta Negra (Black Point Beach).
>>>>>>> Natal is amazing!  The people are as friendly as Recifenses and the
>>>>>>> nightlife is out of this world.  We went dancing last night at a plaza
>>>>>>> with somewhere around 1,000 people.  The plaza is surrounded with open
>>>>>>> air bars, each playing a different style of music and hundreds of
>>>>>>> garotas doing the samba in front of each one.  I think the ratio was
>>>>>>> about 3F/2\M from what I could see without annoying the GF.  :)
>>>>>>> Anyway, having a great time. Glad none of you are here.
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Robert
>>>>>> I'm happy that you're having a good time, Robert.
>>>>> Update since last night. Got sick. Im in hospital. Problem with chest,
>>>>> possible pleural effusion. GF brought my laptop so I have something to
>>>>> do between coughing fits, doctor visits and awful meals. :(
>>>>> Doctor says its not the flu but theres an accumulation of fluid in
>>>>> chest. Cant fly home this week. Will have to extend my "vacation"
>>>>> another wk or two.
>>>> Keep in mind the wonderful drugs Brazil's 3rd world health care will
>>>> give you are illegal copies stolen from US drug companies, Brazil
>>>> doesn't feel the need to honor drug patents
>>> As always, Leuck is wrong. Now for the facts:
>>> The Brazilian government tried for years to negotiate better prices on
>>> US manufactured drugs for AIDS patients. When the huge drug companies
>>> and the US government wouldnt budge, Brazil threatened to manufacture
>>> their own.  All of a suden the US drug conglomerates decided it was
>>> time to negotiate. The drugs I received in the hospital for pneumonia
>>> were made in the US and imported to Brazil.  Avalox is an antibiotic.
>> http://www.scidev.net/en/news/brazil-breaks-patent-on-hivaids-drug.html
>>
>> http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2007-05-04-4260160309_x.htm
>>
>> http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/25633.php
>
> If you took the trouble to actually read the news stories instead of
> just citing hem and pretending that they indicated anything different
> from what I already told you, perhaps you would learn something.
> Following is an excerpt from your first citation:
>
> "BRASILIA, Brazil ? President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva took steps
> Friday to let Brazil buy an inexpensive generic version of an AIDS
> drug made by Merck & Co. despite the U.S. drug company's patent.
>
> "Silva issued a "compulsory license" that would bypass Merck's patent
> on the AIDS drug efavirenz, a day after the Brazilian government
> rejected Merck's offer to sell the drug at a 30 percent discount, or
> $1.10 per pill, down from $1.57.
>
> "The country was seeking to purchase the drug at 65 cents a pill, the
> same price Thailand pays.
>
> "It was the first time Brazil has bypassed a patent, but Silva said
> Brazil would consider doing so again on any drug sold at unfair
> prices.

The first time's always the hardest.  Then, what constitutes a "fair
price" gets put on a well oiled sliding scale.

>"Between our business and our health, we are going to take
> care of our health," he said after signing the decree..."
>
> You might take particular notice of the fact that Brazil only asked
> Merck to charge them the same price they charge Thailand for the same
> drug. Merck refused.

I would hazard that Brazil is a bit more affluent than Thailand.
Shouldn't the countries that CAN pay a bit more do so?  So they pay a
bit more than Thailand, I'm sure there are other countries that pay more
than Brazil... What is fair?

Have you any idea how much it costs to develop, test and bring to market
anew drug?  I don't because my calculator only goes out to ten places.

What pays for that development?  "Well, Billy," (In my best grade-school
film strip narrator's voice) "The research and development budgets of a
big drug (I use 'drug' because I can't spell 'pharmaceutical') company
is paid for out of the profits it gets from products it already has
under patent." (That was an attempt to inject a little light-hearted
tone so we can keep the debate good natured)

Then there are the drugs developed for very rare conditions which, even
with the orphan drug act, sometimes never turn a profit.  Some of them
simply don't engender the amount of grant money that others do - some
lobbyists are better than others.  Those drugs are paid for in the very
same way, through profits.

Do we know for a fact that the price Thailand pays is above cost?  We
can speculate - but nothing more.

So... shouldn't those countries that can afford to pay a bit more chip
in?  Time to get some skin in the game, so to speak?

What I think is obscene is the Pharmaceutical salesmen who make healthy
six figure incomes.  Drugs should be chosen by physicians based upon
statistics that show what works - not because of a bunch of goodies
passed around.

If clinical trials bear out a drugs effectiveness, that's all the
marketing it needs.

The way it is, it's hard to know if the drugs you're getting are
prescribed because that are proven to be the best treatment for your
condition, or because the pharmaceutical rep had a big rack and flashed
some nicely curved leg while discussing with the doctor her product and
the trip to Cancun he could win.