Re: Brinks Home Security Fraud

[Frank Olson <use_the_email_links@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

tourman wrote:

> RHC: Frank, I was not going to respond to this latest round of posts
> because it seemed to me it was simply promoting a continuation of more
> of the same.

But "you started it".  :-)


> However, in fairness, you and I have always pretty much
> conducted ourselves in a cordial and professional manner in any
> interface we've had, so it would be unreasonable to just let your
> comments hang.

I don't see anything wrong with the way you conduct yourself generally,
either.  Banter is one thing, but exchanging personal messages (that
should remain in the realm of email or IRC) is quite another.  As
"Nomen" so succinctly stated...  It's a waste of bandwidth (much like
Bob's "html" floods of the past).


>
> I don't know how I've been "contributing to the turmoil" here as you
> say by simply chatting with RLB over common interests.

It's not alarm related and doesn't invite commentary by others.  It's
strictly a personal discussion and should be kept as such.  Not one of
us is interested in your personal relationship with Bob (or your
vacation plans).


> It may be off
> topic but that's nothing new here and at least it's not done in the
> hateful tone that surrounds so much of the discussions on this
> newsgroup.

When you consider the source of the more "hurtful" discussions on this
newsgroup, openly posting such a personal exchange is nothing short of
provocative.  You should know better.


> I'm not sure what being "part of the solution" means unless
> it means joining in to contribute to all the RLB bashing going on,

I'm not advocating you "bash" Bob (or anyone else).  This is "our"
group.  I enjoy the banter here and am quite willing to share my
expertise with anyone who asks (politely).  I won't stand idly by and
watch someone post lies, innuendo, and hurtful things however (you refer
to them as "over the top").  I believe this group can become everything
Steve R. envisioned.  It seems to me you've already given up on that.
That's well and good.  You're "moving on" to other things that interest
you.  At the moment (and for the foreseeable future), this group
interests me.  It gives me the opportunity to share with others and let
off some steam.


> which you know I won't ever do, since whether I would be right or
> wrong in my assessment, it would simply add to the continual downward
> spiral of this newsgroup into the gutter (where it sits a lot of the
> time anyway).

Yet you won't post any responses to "RLB" regardless of how horrifically
wrong (or "over the top") they are.  Perhaps it's a good thing that
you've limited your participation here.


>
> I have taken RLB to task a few times when I don't agree with him on
> technical matters, as he has done often when I say something that is
> incorrect. And that's as far as it goes.
>
> In the ten or so years I've been a regular on this newsgroup, I've
> always tried to help people who come here get answers to their
> security related questions. Sometimes my answers are correct;
> sometimes they are wrong.

We all have "bad" days.


> But they are never given in a tone that
> implies the person asking the question is some sort of idiot for not
> knowing what we know as professionals in the business. Over the last
> few years, it seems anyone asking a question ends up being scorned in
> some manner, especially if he is a DIY'er who doesn't want his system
> monitored.( Don't get me wrong - I don't bother with local systems in
> any way, shape or form. I firmly believe that having anything to do
> with a local system is a waste of my time and the client's money! The
> equipment is only part of an alarm "system" which is the end to end
> functionality, and that includes proper physical security
> precautions !! ) That said, it is his choice, and not my place (or any
> of our places) to scorn him for his shortsighted decision.

We service quite a few local systems.  All of them have been upgraded to
include a fire detection component.  To deny service to a customer
because he doesn't have monitoring is just plain wrong.  As long as
they're willing to pay the service charge, why not "bother" with them?


>
> I am no fan of ADT as you know, but I don't think I've ever said
> anything they didn't deserve, at least as it concerns the local types
> in our area.

Which is the point I made with Billy.  Our local ADT office is actually
pretty decent when it comes to the service they provide.  They *are*
expensive compared with the smaller dealers, but they've always paid
their bills on time...   :-)


> Compared to others such as AlarmForce though, they are
> virtual saints.

AlarmFarce fills a "niche".  They've positioned themselves as the
"cheap" alternative for people that just want a sign on the door.  No
one that really knows security (and that includes much of the criminal
element) gives their installations the ratings Joel Matlin does.


> Brinks I only know about through posts on this
> newsgroup - they are simply not active in our area of Canada (and
> thank goodness for that I suspect......)
>
> But the newsgroup has become next to useless for any real technical
> purposes I see it having, to the point where I hardly ever read it
> anymore.

Which is exactly my point.  If you contribute to the "noise" you're not
making it any better.


> I see little further purpose (for me anyway) in sticking
> around. And I certainly have no intention of joining in any of the
> sh*t being thrown around  regardless of what anyone thinks of
> that !! .

I didn't even suggest that you should.  I don't like it any more than
you do.  I won't stand idly by and let a bullshit artist take over, though.


> If you don't like the content of what I say, then criticize
> it in a professional manner, and I'll take note and we can discuss our
> differences as professionals in the business with different
> viewpoints.

Which was the entire point of my comments.


> Come back with hateful or vile comments (as some do - not
> you), and it gets filtered. I don't deal in the real world with people
> who conduct themselves that way, so I won't on a virtual newsgroup
> either....

I see...  So rather than comment on Bob's "over the top" posts, you
choose not to get involved and "ignore" them.  From past experience I
would say that this is the "safe" way to participate in this group.
After all, you wouldn't want Bob calling *your* suppliers, etc. asking
about you.  You once posted that Bob's a different person when you
actually meet him.  I can't imagine enjoying someone's company that's
shown such a twisted mentality in a public forum.  An individual that's
reviled in several newsgroups, and that often resorts to puerile and
vulgar commentary to "flame" someone.


>
> As I've said, I'm in the process of moving on into other activities
> and ventures in life, and I intend to leave the newsgroup as I entered
> it. Beyond the little bit of help and advice I can  give, and some
> occasional light hearted banter between members, I don't intend to
> involve myself. That's it in a nutshell and always has been....

While I can't fault you for your outlook, I'm equally amazed at how you
pick the people you hang out with.  I, for one would never associate
with such an individual.  This group will remain polarized for as long
as Bob chooses to participate in the way he does.  He's been told often
enough that his behaviour is unacceptable.  His "tactics" have evolved
over time but his favourite one involves  "baiting" certain individuals
to provoke a reaction.  If you honestly believe my pointing out the
mistakes in his websites is purely out of "animosity", you're wrong.
The last thing I would do is try to "help" the man.  He does pose a
genuine danger to the uninformed DIYer that happens upon his site.
What's really "sad" is that his attitude towards me won't allow him to
correct those mistakes.  As he's so often demonstrated in the past,
being told "he's wrong" really bites.  I don't respect the man for the
lies he frequently tells, his "bad" math, and the way he denigrates
certain individuals he "targets" in the group or our profession.  I
won't stand by and watch him huck eggs at my house either.